Would you buy a M2 with M6 framelines?

[terrafirmanada]

Would you buy a M2 with M6 framelines?

Sounds like a MP without a meter to me. Could be a good thing, but also raises some questions for me too.
The camera is overseas, which means customs, shipping and a huge potential hassle. The seller is asking around 700 USD, which sounds a bit steep. But the camera had a CLA when the M6 framed were installed one year ago.
So my questions are these:
1. How can I create a situation where I can evaluate the camera? I am willing to pay some shipping costs (it is in the UK).
2. What if I ever wanted to sell the camera again? I have heard that altered cameras are less desireable. Would the resale be less than a normal M2?
3. Are there any other major issues I should be concerned with?

 

[Treb]

2. Value will be less than an all original M2 in similar condition. Unless you can find someone who actually wants such a converted M2.

 

[Flyfisher Tom]

1. How can I create a situation where I can evaluate the camera? I am willing to pay some shipping costs (it is in the UK).

We seem to have a fair number of UK members on the forum, perhaps one of them can evaluate the camera for you?

I've always thought we could create a list where we can look over equipment for each other from our respective geographic regions.

 

[terrafirmanada]

Treb, I thought so. So what might this altered cam be worth?
Tom, I was thinking the same thing- I don't know exactly where it is but I may ask for volunteers once I find out the location. It would be best to have some firsthand response before going to the trouble of shipping etc...

 

[kajabbi]

It is not unusual for owners of older models to have the viewfinders converted. I use M5s and have them upgraded to facilitate the use of both the 28MM and the 75MM lenses.
The leastof my concerns is gain or loss in value. If collecting is your thing the, of course, leave the M2 original. I'm one of those lost souls that use Leicas to , heaven forbid, take pictures.

 

[furcafe]

I wouldn't buy such a camera, but that's because I prefer the M2's more accurate framelines, rarely shoot wider than 35mm (hence, no need for a 28mm frame), & like the M2's more flare-resistant RF patch (assuming it hasn't had the late M7/MP flare-fix installed).

 

[rover]

I wouldn't buy such a camera, but that's because I prefer the M2's more accurate framelines, rarely shoot wider than 35mm (hence, no need for a 28mm frame), & like the M2's more flare-resistant RF patch (assuming it hasn't had the late M7/MP flare-fix installed).

I agree, I would prefer an M2 with M2 framelines. $700 for a CLA'd camera doesn't sound bad though. Figure at best you will find a beaten up M2 for $500 or more then have to spend at least $200 to service it. Shipping will be more than the domestic rate, but not too bad. Customs will not be a problem at all, you will not have to pay any taxes or anything. Most likely you will have to go and pick up the package if there isn't someone home to sign for it.

 

[kbg32]

I wouldn't worry if it has been altered. Many M users have had their cameras altered to newer finders. A camera's worth is what you feel you can do with it as a tool. If you are buying for investment, forget about the purchase. It's not right for you. If you are buying the camera to actually use it and it will get you where you want to be, go for it and enjoy.

 

[jaapv]

Why don't you look for a nice M4? Makes more sense to me.

 

[Ben Z]

What I would want to know is if it just has M6 framelines, or if the entire rangefinder was exchanged. For me a 135mm frameline is important so I never considered an M2, so the M6 frameline masks would be a "plus" for me. If the entire rangefinder had been exchanged for a (probably M4-P) new one, that would be even more of a plus. The primary reason that would've been done is if the prism had decemented and the owner was not lucky enough to know that CRR Luton and DAG can recement them. Otherwise Leica and Sherry K and perhaps others insist on replacing the entire rangefinder at a cost in excess of $500 on top of the labor for an overhaul. So getting an M2 with a new rangefinder that won't ever decement, for the nominal cost of a regular M2, would be a terreific bargain. BTW that "flare" thing, which only incapacitates a tiny minority of users, can now be easily remedied by the so-called MP-upgrade, which is about $180 or so.

 

[Stephanie Brim]

I actually saw that camera and, yes, I'd buy it. The M2's fully mechanical workings and the M6's framelines are a dream for me. Yes, most probably wouldn't do this, but for someone who would rather use an external meter anyway, this works out rather well.

 

[Alec]

That is the M6TTL, not the "classic" M6

Are you definitive about that Jaap? My M6Ti (classic) used to flare quite often before I applied Lutz Konermann's Shade treatment, whereas my M2 (original, I think) never does.

Having said that, I still don't see the sense in having a M2 with an M6 viewfinder, when there are M4-P, M4-2 etc. on the market.

The more I use the M6, the more I appreciate the M2 winding lever and knob rewind! But that's just me 😉

 

[35mmdelux]

The M2 is one of the less desired M cameras. If altered, better have full paperwork documenting who did the work when resold. Given that it is half way round the world I would pass on the deal. Its just an average price at best.

A few days ago I picked up a mint M6 classic for $1K. Or you can pick up a highly regarded M3 SS for $800 and change or a stellar M4-P for $800. The M4-P being one of the best M's.

Yours not a good deal. Pass.

 

[Doug]

The price sounds decent, lower than they were going for a few years back. I would hope it was only the frameline mask that was changed (if it would fit) and not the entire RF, and agree with Furcafe and Rover's views...

 

[hth]

I guess people have different opinions, but I would get an M2 over any of the M bodies you list as more desired. M3 SS is way old, early M6 have old electronics waiting to give you a hefty CLA bill and the stellar M4-P might be OK in my eyes, but of less build quality and finish than an M2.

I agree that one should probably pass on a camera that is far away unless there is a very good reason to buy that particular camera. Try to find one closer and save the headache of import duties, M bodies are not rare.

I would probably pass on an M2 with changed RF. Is it one of the flary ones people are scared of? If you want 75 frame lines, it could be a good idea. I sometimes wish there were 75 frame lines instead of 90 in my M2 or M4.

The original M2 finder is very uncluttered and nice by the way. The M2 is a simple and well built picture taker and the body I definitely reach for most of the time. My M4 is sort of nicer, but tends to stay at home for some reason, with the other non-Leica M bodies.

/Håkan

The M2 is one of the less desired M cameras. If altered, better have full paperwork documenting who did the work when resold. Given that it is half way round the world I would pass on the deal. Its just an average price at best.

A few days ago I picked up a mint M6 classic for $1K. Or you can pick up a highly regarded M3 SS for $800 and change or a stellar M4-P for $800. The M4-P being one of the best M's.

Yours not a good deal. Pass.

 

[former member]

I like the M2 and would not hesitate to buy one. In fact I did not hesitate.

Understand that it is about the same age as the M3. Once you are over 40, fifty does not sound too old. So the M3 goes back to '54 and the M2 goes back to '57.

Watch for the type rewind that is on it. Mine is from the first batch, and the rewind button has to be held in while rewinding. Later models "latched" then went over to the M3 style lever. The viewfinder is "almost" as good as the M3 in terms of clarity. It is better than my Canon and Nikon RF's.

The amazing thing is parts are still available. I got mine cheap, with a blown rewind. Took a while to repair, the parts were backordered from Germany!

 

[terrafirmanada]

Thanks for your many thoughts.
I am a bit concerned about the flare problem. Is that somehow exasperated in an M2 body or the same as it would be in an M6?
I have not heard from the seller today to know about the extent of the work done (whole rf or just framelines). I assumed it was the whole shootin match. But now I'm thinking I should know a couple more precise details.
I am not worried at all about the altered vf per se, in fact that is what I liked about this cam in the first place. My M3 has had the winding head upgraded. It now makes those little clicks on the return, and feels oh so good.
I guess I am inclined to pass on this deal for now. I will continue to save on to my loot and look around some more. I love the feel of the M3 (as others have also mentioned, and prefer it to the M4 I had anyway). Maybe the lottery will have am MP in it for me this week. Oh ya, ya have to play to win.

 

[jaapv]

Sounds like a problem with your specific camera. I feel sorry for it sitting on its shelf. I am sure it loves to take photographs. A trick in cases like this is to stick a small rectangle of black tape on the viewfinder-window, exactly where the RF patch is and turn it into a split-screen viewfinder instead of a coinciding one.

 

[Ben Z]

The middle window was changed to the washboard style on the M2, the flare problem didn't come along until somewhere in the M4-2 lifespan when a small lens in the light path was done away with. The new LHSA MP-3 has the flat opal window like the M3.

That all said, Daniel it would cost you about $185 to have DAG upgrade your Frankensteined- M3's rangefinder with the MP upgrade and you'll have full use of it once again. You might consider that option if that's the only reason you're not using it.

 

[35mmdelux]

Terra... I think you made the best choice by passing on the deal. Its well known that the M2 was issued as an economy model of the m3. Then having it changed over is really pushing it. Kind of buying an old Pinto auto, then upgrading w/ BMW stuff. Doesn't add up.

Just picked up a M4-p in great cond w/ all the framelines I'll ever need. $699 from reliable seller.