I went through every page of Leica items this morning in response to this, and, in general, after you took off the 20%, the prices for "Ex" items were still considerably higher than I have been able to get mint items for off of eBay, from reliable sellers. There were a few accessory items which were priced better than that, so I still managed to spend a couple of hundred dollars, but the lenses and bodies were generally no bargains even after the discount.