X100 Alternative (thoughts while waiting...)

[DavidX]

So – I’ve had it on pre-order but only three made it to my home town in the first delivery, so I’m still waiting like everyone else.

When it was announced I thought, “Wow, someone has tapped into my brain and created my dream camera!” But as weeks and months pass I’ve been left with too much time to think…

I shoot editorial stuff for money, but it only comprises about 1/3 of my income, and I’m rather cheap when it comes to gear.

I use a D700 and various Nikon manual focus primes and the odd AF-D.

As well as editorial stuff I have done a fine art exhibit shot in Paris with a dlux3 – my take on street photography www.davidhume.net/paris

I hate composing with an lcd. Yuck! Plus I’m getting old and longsighted so I have to hold them so far away.

So here’s my thought:

35mm f2 AF-D for my D700
G12 + Voigtlander 35mm OVF for the G12 and set it up for street.

Total $ comes in less than the X100.

And I was wondering about a camera to take on an upcoming hiking trip. I'm way past taking a dslr travelling (even though 15 yrs ago I took to Venice 1xRB67, 1xSX70, 1xNikkormat!) I’m a bit worried about the X100 getting banged up and rained on.

I’m thinking of cancelling the X100 and coming back in a year to see what’s happened…

 

[Keith]

I was using my D700 the other day with a 35mm f2 AF-D on it using matrix metering and auto focus and it was blindingly fast I have to say! I didn't think much of that lens when I got it but it works brilliantly and it's IQ is fine IMO ... it just feels like a plasticy piece of crap! 😛

 

[viramati]

Only problem with the D700 + 35 f2 is that it won't fit in your pocket and it makes a lot of noise. If that is no problem for you I would probably stick with the D700

 

[andrew00]

The Ricoh GXR would be worth checking out, it's image quality is outstanding, it's small, and can use an EVF.

 

[Pickett Wilson]

The X100 really isn't a pocket camera, so I would think if you were looking for an alternative, you would look toward m4/3 rather than a small sensor camera like the G12. The G12 is a great camera, but it's only advantage over an m4/3 camera is size...and if pocketable is the goal at all cost, then the S95 is the "really" pocketable camera to look at.

The G12 is good for a small sensor camera, but can't really hang with m4/3 for image quality. I've owned a G11 and an E-P2.

 

[DavidX]

Thanks guys - good points all I reckon.

Keith - Yes, I know what you mean; it kills me to pop my 50 1.8 AF-D on, but I have to admit the IQ is fine! (so I put a collapsible rubber hood on it to make it more funky)

David - Observations re noise etc; I find it's usually a matter of being conspicuous. I put the MBD10 and big lens on for certain clients, but the small body and a small lens do not show up much if you're sneaky because these days everyone has a DSLR. I think that is the single thing that's made it easier to be candid - I love it. The times I really want the close focus and f 2 I reckon I'm likely to be near enough to home that it's not a hassle to take a DSLR

Andrew thanks I'll chech the GXR it's not yet on my rader - and following on to Wilson; Like everyone I have though "Hmm.. m 4/3 - Panny and a 20 1.7, sweet" But I had no immediate job for the camera, and didn't consider buying

For some reason - right or wrong - I think that APSC is fine - no issues at all with IQ for my uses, the only reason (now - not when I bought the D700) for full frame is that it's easier to see through the viewfinder.

So I thought if the ergonomics of an APSC were good , then go for it. I still have the idea that 4/3 is not quite there; 4/3 compromise - APSC no compromise. That's personal rather than reasoned, and I'm ready to accept that it's not technical!

Yes, "thoughts while waiting" sums it up. All this is moot; just passing the time! (I'll go and look up the GXR)

Oh, and I used to use a Nikon Coolpix 5000 for magazine product shots! Wow - a 5MP camera for under $2K - what next?

 

[Keith]

I meant to mention I really enjoyed 'five seconds in paris' ... I especially liked that the entire exposure time of the set totals that five seconds! Initially the movement blur and lack of focus annoyed me ... then I overcame that and just enjoyed the images. 😀

I like your work a lot ... thanks. 🙂

 

[Frank Petronio]

I made a lot of commercially viable pictures with the Pany G1 and 20/1.7 and have a hard time faulting it. The EVF in the G1 is still state-of-art and quite good, I think it is so much nicer than getting the smaller m4/3s bodies and kludging the separate EVF unit. I think I prefer the G1 EVF to most cheaper DSLR optical viewfinders and you can control the camera and review pictures with it up to your eye in bright sun, something a normal SLR can't do. And you can use vintage lenses on the cheap, etc.

Plus they are "obsolete" and dirt cheap, bodies in the $200 range. A 20/1.7 maybe $250, lots of nice >$500 outfits out there. I actually sold mine in anticipation of the X100, figuring I should unload it earlier than latter when it's a stampede.

It's coat pocket size, quite a bit lighter and more compact than any D700.

I might just get another one when a good deal pops up.

The GXR is nice and the Ricoh user interface is the best in the business but I think the lens/sensor combos are too expensive for what they are. It's a weirdo design compromise, Ricoh should have done a good APS-c compact first, if they did that and hit >$1000 they would have sold a ton.

Right now I am back with Nikon because they are easy, cheap, reliable. I think the old screw-drive AF lenses feel cheap too but they work really well and the screw drives focus faster than the newer AFS primes I've tried (granted not the high-end /1.4 ones).... The 50/1.4 and 35/1.8 AFS lenses are nicer feeling and looking lenses but noticeably slower for focusing.

Now that the X100 is slow to arrive and some early user-interface issues are apparent, I am also going to "wait and see" what the next cycle or two reveal. I realized that I didn't "need" an X100 to make successful photos and the older stuff is working just fine ;-)

Oh and there is always this stuff called film for compact street shooting ;-) Maybe it is better to have a D700 for work and a compact film Nikon for street? I have shot about a dozen rolls in a dirt cheap N80 and it's great - controls like the digital, super light, nice finder (compared to a DX DSLR at least), and snappy with those ugly screw-drive AF primes.

 

[j j]

Samsung NX series with 30mm f2 is my choice for this type of use. Same sensor as some Pentax SLRs. I like my NX100 very much.

 

[dave lackey]

So – I’ve had it on pre-order but only three made it to my home town in the first delivery, so I’m still waiting like everyone else.

When it was announced I thought, “Wow, someone has tapped into my brain and created my dream camera!” But as weeks and months pass I’ve been left with too much time to think…

I shoot editorial stuff for money, but it only comprises about 1/3 of my income, and I’m rather cheap when it comes to gear.

I use a D700 and various Nikon manual focus primes and the odd AF-D.

As well as editorial stuff I have done a fine art exhibit shot in Paris with a dlux3 – my take on street photography www.davidhume.net/paris

I hate composing with an lcd. Yuck! Plus I’m getting old and longsighted so I have to hold them so far away.

So here’s my thought:

35mm f2 AF-D for my D700
G12 + Voigtlander 35mm OVF for the G12 and set it up for street.

Total $ comes in less than the X100.

And I was wondering about a camera to take on an upcoming hiking trip. I'm way past taking a dslr travelling (even though 15 yrs ago I took to Venice 1xRB67, 1xSX70, 1xNikkormat!) I’m a bit worried about the X100 getting banged up and rained on.

I’m thinking of cancelling the X100 and coming back in a year to see what’s happened…

Funny how a camera that is not here yet and has been held up as THE alternative is now being discussed with a reversed role about what is the alternative to the X100...the alternatives are what have been here all along. Nothing has changed.🙂

That said, if you are set on digital, the choices are freaking endless. Good luck in selecting what you want. As for my input, my opinion would never fit most of the folks on this forum anyway, but it is your money so buy what YOU want and/or need. BTW, I'm with you on lcd's!😀 Or batteries. Or ....

 

[dave lackey]

I was using my D700 the other day with a 35mm f2 AF-D on it using matrix metering and auto focus and it was blindingly fast I have to say! I didn't think much of that lens when I got it but it works brilliantly and it's IQ is fine IMO ... it just feels like a plasticy piece of crap! 😛

Ah, yes, there is a place in the world for plastic crap, though. I can carry the Nikkormat or any old Nikon cheapo (N60?) and never worry about it, all the while getting great photos!😛

Imagine that, a couple of $40 full frame cameras with a superior quality lens.🙂

 

[DavidX]

Thanks Keith - re Paris; I was taking the show down and an old guy walked past the gallery and popped in by chance. At first he was "Oh, these aren't photos!" and then he got in to them and we started talking; then he pulled the M3 with Pan F and collapsible 50 out of his bag! Good photographer - (also GSW45) We had a great yak!

And Frank - I know what you mean; a local shop had a mint Ti 35 for sale and I thought about it, but I went on holidays a year ago and along with the Dlux3 I took the FM2 loaded with Velvia 50 and a 35 2.8. I didn't mind carrying it- much better than a D700 - but the low Iso KILLED me! I couldn't even get a decent shot of the kids! I used to shoot Provia (people) and Velvia (landscapes/exteriors) exclusively but I've clearly lost my touch.

 

[jsrockit]

I would wait for the X100 unless you haven't been waiting for a non-DSLR with an optical VF / EVF built in.

 

[Spyro]

G12 + Voigtlander 35mm OVF for the G12 and set it up for street.

Depends how you shoot street. If you focus every shot its fine, if you zone focus you might not like it because it doesnt have a focus distance scale. You can sort of work around this by mounting a manual focus lens with adapter but with the crop factor you probably end up with some bizarre fov/aperture combo.
Also it's nowhere near as quiet as the x100, which may or may not be a factor. It all depends how you shoot street.

 

[DavidX]

Funny how a camera that is not here yet and has been held up as THE alternative is now being discussed with a reversed role about what is the alternative to the X100...the alternatives are what have been here all along. Nothing has changed.🙂
....

You're right - It's sad! (but entertaining) Should be shooting not posting. At least I did make some pleasing commercial images today (unlike most days)

But I'm afraid I just can't bring myself to use film anymore.

I recently bought a cheap Trip 35 for fun and it's still sitting there with it's first roll of 400 print film not half shot - It's my fault, not the camera's.

 

[andrew00]

Aye, the X100 is great at what it does but it's also important for what it isn't, so really you have to rank your desires up.

For me, I wanted a camera that could basically be a large sensor camera, smallish, VF and separate hot shoe for my flash.

I tried a NEX-5 - it had no VF, no hot shoe and poor prime lens choice (aka one lens and it's a wide heh). Sigma DP2S was great but too difficult a camera to use.

The M4/3 lot are cool but the EVF's take the hot shoe and I wasn't 100% on the IQ so that took them out.

If I hadn't've got the X100 I would've got the GXR. It's pricey but the IQ is great and it's EVF is good, Ricoh's are also awesome in general, I love my GRD3!

It's all about what you want and what comes closest!

 

[doolittle]

I went for a used M8, but then I had a lens for it already.
In your case maybe consider one of the consumer Nikon dSLRs to augment your D700. Something like a D3100. Good high iso too. You will have to manually focus anything that isn't an AF-S lens, but you are doing that already. It's lightweight, much less bulky than a D700 (but still not exactly pocketable compared to X100 etc.) and cheap too.

 

[Rob-F]

Pocket camera? Leica/Panasonic (Leicasonic?) I use my D-Lux 3 and D-Lux 4 a lot. It is truly freeing to be able to take along such a small camera, that still gives great results! I don't have the D-Lux 5, but I haven't ruled it out.

Nor have I ruled out the 4/3 Panasonic models. The ability to interchange lenses would keep me happier longer. The 14-45 and the 20/1.7 might be enough for me, at least to start with. They are not as pocketable as the D-Lux models, but still pretty small.

I think I would have buyer's remorse with the X-100, on account of its not having interchangeable lenses.

 

[Vobluda]

I ve got Leica X1 while waiting for X100 from a friend, who got today the first X100 that was available here (total 8 today, maybe some more next week). And X1 is not that bad camera after all..

 

[bensyverson]

Hexar AF...