X100 Design

There is a tendency here to generalize one's own preferences derived from one's own shooting style to absolute statements (no offense intended):

Maybe it's unfortunate from a nostalgia point of view but from a usability perspective, changing the aperture with the finger-wheel is most efficient, especially if you can see in the viewfinder what aperture you dialed in. I can live with it on my M8 but the 5D operates much better here.
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For example, in my shooting, I have no time to read all the information in the viewfinder around the frame before taking a shot. The information is useless there for me. I shoot with my camera preset. What I therefore do need to see, is how the camera is set from outside the viewfinder. That's why I prefer traditional controls. (D)SLRs and many other modern designs put their displays to sleep after a short period of inactivity and no longer show aperture and shutter settings without half-pressing the shutter. On my Leica, in one glance I can always see what's going on, anytime. I don't care where the aperture control is, lens, dial on the body, etc., but that the information is easily accessible anytime is important to me.

- N.
 
The word "archetype" is a funny one. Some people are uncomfortable with Jung because of this concept: it implies that there are absolute truths that exist out there, before anyone comes along and understands them.

The danger is that the concept of "archetype" lets one interpret one's personal biases and prejudices as "truth", as what is natural and correct....when these things may only be provisional and arbitrary.

Back to cameras -- yes, your point about form following function is valid, and interesting.

However, I'd argue it's not a total coincidence that the x100 so closely resembles its ancestors.
 
I Just hope there is such a thing as a perfect camera. Unfortunately each and everyone of us have differing styles and preferences. IMO Fuji is smart actually very smart in getting that X100 out. It puts a shame to the rest of the gang Leica included.
 
gilpen123 said:
I Just hope there is such a thing as a perfect camera.
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I gave up waiting for what I consider the perfect camera** and decided that the x100 is as close as it's ever going to get. And even that seems like such a massive fluke for a whole design team to swing my way like that that I still cant believe it exists...

**a full frame x100 with active infrared AF - basically a digital hexar AF.
 
I agree. I think it's fairly obvious that the X100's controls were designed to appeal to those buyers who prefer traditional (though by "traditional" we have to leave out old-school designs like the Olympus OM & Zeiss Ikon Contarex, which had shutter speed & aperture controls on the front of the camera, respectively) manual controls.

Per ndnik's post (#25), I think the great divide is not necessarily between manual focus & autofocus, but rather between those who prefer to use/adjust controls while looking through the VF & those who prefer to do so before (or after) bringing the camera up to their eye. From my experience, most "modern" (post mid-1970s) cameras are clearly oriented around those who fall into the 1st camp, which is also perhaps more compatible w/SLRs, as opposed to RFs.

DamenS said:
I disagree. Even with something that you believe is as incontrovertibly correct "from a user and engineering perspective" as having the aperture dial on the lens. I love rangefinders and would PREFER the aperture on the lens - but can at least recognise I do so for purely nostalgic reasons.

In fact, from a user perspective, it would be better to use a front/rear dial in an AF camera such as the fuji X-100 (which would then open the possibility of one-handed use).

From an engineering perspective on the Fuji x-100 it makes no difference whatsoever where the "aperture selector" is placed as it is still an electronic motor which moves the diaphram, not the selector itself ... actually, I take that back, it kind of does matter ... it would be MORE EXPENSIVE for Fuji to adopt the click-stop aperture ring around the lens rather than to use one of the pre-existing dials.

I notice someone mentioned the Fuji is a digital equivalent to the Konica Hexar AF which made me laugh a little as I own that camera, and where is its aperture selector ? It's a dial on the top plate.

And this is JUST talking about aperture selection. It would take too long to go through each design decision and show to you that there is absolutely NO "invariability" about the position of controls etc. on the Fuji x-100, or any other camera for that matter. You are fooling yourself if you believe "nostalgia" was not a primary design consideration (in fact, I believe I could even find a quote from the Fuji designers STATING as much without too much trouble) !!
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Reply to jsrockit - Again this is just my opinion, how come the giants (Nikon and Canon) have not done a compact fixed lens camera with APS-C size sensor that can handle color, lowlight and monochrome at such level. The niche market Fuji created is substantial enough to merit their attention. They have vast resources to do so and yet they are so surefooted not to develop new ideas and create new market. Sure new bodies come out often but it's still the big body muscled DSLRs and a lot of useless point and shoots except maybe a few exceptions like the S90/95 and LX3/5.

The Leica X1 at such a price never even thought to give us a VF and a decent AF speed. I really can't shoot arms length with a 2K camera.
 
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gilpen123 said:
Reply to jsrockit - Again this is just my opinion, how come the giants (Nikon and Canon) have not done a compact fixed lens camera with APS-C size sensor that can handle color, lowlight and monochrome at such level.
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Both are already world leaders and feel they already have enough cameras to fulfill most people's needs.

The niche market Fuji created is substantial enough to merit their attention. They have vast resources to do so and yet they are so surefooted not to develop new ideas and create new market. Sure new bodies come out often but it's still the big body muscled DSLRs and a lot of useless point and shoots except maybe a few exceptions like the S90/95 and LX3/5.
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Well, Fuji didn't create the niche, they just did it right after a few attempts by others (olympus, leica, panasonic). Remember, those of us who like mirrorless and rangefinders are the minority. Many people prefer a DSLR and don't care about size/ weight.

The Leica X1 at such a price never even thought to give us a VF and a decent AF speed. I really can't shoot arms length with a 2K camera.
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Before the X100, this was simply the best compact APS-C on the market... despite its slow AF.

I guess my point is that the X100's popularity does not really impact Leica as a whole... perhaps it only effects the X1 (which was available 1 year earlier). I own the X100 and the M9. The M9 smokes the Fuji in every day photo making at normal daytime ISOs (as it should). However, the X100 has macro, high ISO, and a quiet shutter, so it has its place with me.
 
Give us a digital Hexar AF ! Upgrade the maximum shutter speed to 1/500th second at F2 (since that is clearly possible now) and provide a display of shutter speed and aperture selected inside the viewfinder - done and dusted ... that camera (even with an APS-C sensor/lets just remove the anti-aliasing filter) would be a MASSIVE seller.
 
ndnik said:
There is a tendency here to generalize one's own preferences derived from one's own shooting style to absolute statements (no offense intended):

For example, in my shooting, I have no time to read all the information in the viewfinder around the frame before taking a shot. The information is useless there for me. I shoot with my camera preset. What I therefore do need to see, is how the camera is set from outside the viewfinder. That's why I prefer traditional controls. (D)SLRs and many other modern designs put their displays to sleep after a short period of inactivity and no longer show aperture and shutter settings without half-pressing the shutter. On my Leica, in one glance I can always see what's going on, anytime. I don't care where the aperture control is, lens, dial on the body, etc., but that the information is easily accessible anytime is important to me.

- N.
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Don't you find being able to read the meter from the top LCD of a DSLR to be somewhat useful in that case?
 
jsrockit said:
The M9 smokes the Fuji in every day photo making at normal daytime ISOs
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In what way does it 'smoke' it? Certainly not in dynamic range but I do see the advantage the M9 may have by being able to choose one's focal length and lens type.

Who did the web comparison between the X100 and an M9 with a 35mm Summicron recently ... I don't remember? What I do remember is that the M9 certainly didn't kick the Fuji's butt in what I thought was a very fair comparison ... the difference was marginal!
 
Sorry Keith. I realized my mistake after posting - as usual! I seem to recall reading something along those lines myself a few weeks ago, but didn't bookmark it.

Kai was much kinder to the X100 when he wasn't comparing it to the M9. If money were no object, who wouldn't want an M9?! Of course, if that were the case I'd have at least one of each!
 
On those cropped images after the same city landscape at f/8, the difference is HUGE... Not that the X100 is bad: the M9/its lens are just amazing. If the difference is that big on a screen, on prints both cameras must be different worlds. (Just my opinion...)

Cheers,

Juan
 
@ jsrockit : That is precisely why the American car industry is in shambles, too late to get into the compact car. The Toyotas, Nissans, Hondas and Hyundais are so well entrenched in what used to be a niche in the great America.
 
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