XTOL + Rodinal vs. Rodinal Only

O

omarmagdi

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Hello everyone.

I am so interested into getting some XTOL and mix it with Rodinal, unfortunately nobody in Egypt sells XTOL anymore, so I'll need to order that 5 liter pack from the US or something, and that would cost me around $30 per pack and of course that's a lot to spend on a developer than I am not so sure I will be using regularly.

But to whoever used this combination.
What is better in terms of Contrast, Whites and most important Sharpness and Resolution?

Is the mix better than Rodinal alone when it come to any if not all?

I quite like the grain of Rodinal (Most of the times) also how does the grain change there? is it drastically softer?

And how about Rodinal's Sharpness?

I use TRI-X 400 box speed, I rarely push or pull my film.

Tell me your thoughts!
Thanks!
 
I've heard of this "mixture" here but I've also seen a scientific breakdown of why it absolutely doesn't do anything special or different than straight XTOL.

Has anyone done a clear, side-by-side comparison to prove that it changes anything?

I suggest just using one or the other and figure out what you like. Tri-X + Rodinal is great, but for me it doesn't quite hit an EI of 400. In XTOL I rate Tri-X at 500-640 though.
 
When I was in Korea in the mid-70s, I used to experiment with mixing different developers. I don't know if chemicals are readily available where you are or not, but a google search brought up http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/xtol/ which at the bottom of the page, gives a link to a formula for Mytol, which is supposed to be an Xtol substitute. According to the author, experimenting for oneself is permissible under USA patent law, if that even applies where you are.
 
I've used Xtol+Rodinal mix sometimes. It's pretty easy trick to do. Use Xtol as usual. Then just add a couple of millilitres of Rodinal in the tank. What you get is not much more grain but more acutance. The image looks like it had been digitally sharpened.
 
Mablo said:
I've used Xtol+Rodinal mix sometimes. It's pretty easy trick to do. Use Xtol as usual. Then just add a couple of millilitres of Rodinal in the tank. What you get is not much more grain but more acutance. The image looks like it had been digitally sharpened.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Not that I want my film images to look digitally sharpened, but this is interesting to know about.
 
Ned Bojic said:
I hsve a hard time believing that.
Rodinal is 11ph or so, xtol 8.5.
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What's more, the ascorbate part of XTOL does not develop but fog if the solution gets too alkaline, while Rodinal in its turn is inactivated in the relatively neutral buffer needed by XTOL. I doubt that there is a ratio at which this mixture is beneficial - if you go over the top, things will instead get worse. But thanks to the buffering, many ratios will still behave like the dominant part...
 
Well, you guys are all better chemists than I could ever be. Still, what I wrote is my story and I stick with it.

Originally I found the Xtol + Rodinal idea reading this thread: https://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75475 and admiring images by Honus (links to Flickr images can be found in the thread).

There's also a recipe by Sam Elkind in the article of Rodinal in unblinkingeye.com: http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Rodinal/rodinal.html. The recipe is quite similar to the 'medium' recipe Honus is using.

There's also a Flickr pool of images developed with the Xtol + Rodinal concoction. You can say what you like about the images in the pool but I think they all look quite sharp and crisp.

https://www.flickr.com/groups/819042@N23/pool/
 
kiss-o-matic said:
If you mix a high grain and a low grain developer 1:1, will it be high grain or low grain?
Click to expand...

Usually, mixtures will converge to something very mainstream, as mixing will reduce the additives to inactive concentrations. And these are what makes most non-common developers special. In the worst case, mixtures might not even develop any more - some developing agents inhibit others, or share no mutual pH range.
 
What if one were to develop in Xtol for 75% of the time/dilution, rinse, and then develop in Rodinal for 25% of the time/dilution? The ratios are just a guess. This would be Xtol for 6:45 at 1+1 dilution (9:00 recommended) followed by Rodinal for 3:15 at 1+50 (13:00 recommended).

The pH issue would be minimized but it would seem to be a waste of chemistry unless higher dilutions are used.

My guess is it would not have a significant difference if less than 20% of total processing time was used with the second developer. I would also predict that because Xtol is better at maintaining film speed, there will still be a loss of speed with the shorter Xtol development time that is not made up by the Rodinal.

I have seen discussions on mixing these developers and “spiking” the Xtol with Rodinal towards the end of the development but not on using the two in sequence. If I missed something in the Xtol/Rodinal discussion please include the links. Thanks
 
I tried it once, didn't do anything for me. Vowed to be much more careful not to be lured into modern alchemy anymore... :D
 
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