Xtol Woes

kemal_mumcu

kemal_mumcu

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Hi there. I've just got my first bag of Xtol and have developed maybe 8 rolls already with it. I can't seem to control contrast. I've been losing a lot of potentially good shots because my stuff is coming out too contrasty. I've shot a few of the rolls with my SLR with spot metering so I'm fairly confident that my metering is OK.

I normally have used D-76 for my b&w and over time I grew to developing longer than the box stated and had the agitation down just right. Now with Xtol I'm seeing too much contrast and even uneven edges indicating not enough agitation. (I'm developing according to the box suggestions)

If I agitate more I'll get more contrast right?

How do I lower contrast?

Does diluting the mix add or decrease contrast?

Hmmm... any suggestions for this still newbie at b&w chemistry?

Learning something new every day.
 
kemal_mumcu said:
Hi there. I've just got my first bag of Xtol and have developed maybe 8 rolls already with it. I can't seem to control contrast. I've been losing a lot of potentially good shots because my stuff is coming out too contrasty. I've shot a few of the rolls with my SLR with spot metering so I'm fairly confident that my metering is OK.

I normally have used D-76 for my b&w and over time I grew to developing longer than the box stated and had the agitation down just right. Now with Xtol I'm seeing too much contrast and even uneven edges indicating not enough agitation. (I'm developing according to the box suggestions)

If I agitate more I'll get more contrast right?

How do I lower contrast?

Does diluting the mix add or decrease contrast?

Hmmm... any suggestions for this still newbie at b&w chemistry?

Learning something new every day.
Click to expand...

Less development always means less contrast. This can be achieved by any one or more of the following:

Shorter time
Lower temperature
Higher dilution
Less agitation

There's a lot more about this here: http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/ps neg development 1.html

Cheers,

R.
 
Dilluting the developer will increase the relative development time to a stock solution but can if timed right work to increase or decrease contrast; not by matter of dillution amount but by the increase in time involved. (ie: you may not proportionally increase/decrease the development time and end up with more or less contrast)

The best way to control contrast is with starting on the stock solution and increasing development time for more contrast and decreasing development time for lower contrast.

If you find that development time becomes less than 5 minutes I would recommend either dilluting the developer to increase the development time or reducing the temperature (e.g. 24 deg C to 20 deg C, 20 deg C to 18 deg C.)

If you agitate more you get more development therefore yes, more contrast.

Just a quick question, D-76 sounds like it worked out for you? Why the change?

My recommendation is stick to one developer and really nail it before experimenting with a new developer on rolls that have shots that may matter.

D-76 is a very good developer and whilst I have and still use Xtol, I still really like my FP4+ and Tri-X developed in good old D-76.

Vicky
 
I use xtol 1+1. Agitate the first 30 sec and then 3 times every minute.
Development time is mostly what is recommended.
I get good results with almost any film. If the scene is too contrasty I overexpose a stop and develop shorter.
But you have to get used to a new developer. It all needs tweaking.

Cheers,

Michiel Fokkema
 
Yeah, I guess I had worked with D76 for over a year straight and was wondering about Kodak's 'deluxe' Xtol. Just experimenting although I hear you and I'll probably go back to D-76. Cheaper too. Developing my own b&w is fun but sometimes one wants to try something different and try a new film or developer. One day I want to set up a dark room and make prints just to learn something new and so I can say I did it.

I've kinda settled on PX125 and Neopan 1600 for the films that I like the best. Actually, I'm working with Neopan 1600 and seeing if I like it better than pushed TriX at 1000 and although I haven't developed the Neopan with D76 I think I'll go this route for the next year or so.

Thanks for the advice by the way to all.
 
Xtol is incredibly user friendly in my expeience. sounds like if you drop the dev time (and I would also recommend agitation about 5-10s every minute and not the Kodak twice a minute) you should be able to get dialed in. if you are using it 1+1 or weaker, the irony is that it controls contrast in the highlights better (by far) than D76 IMO. I use Xtol in Afghanistan specifically because it is hard to blow highlights. You'll get there!
Its great with Neopan 1600. Just rate it at 500-640 and develop gently for the true speed and consider anything more a push. lovely fine grain and tonality with this pair when done right.
 
Need more input.

Film? E.I.? Temp.? Dilution? Agitation?

My results:

Ancient expired Kodak 120-TXP @ 250. Xtol 1:3. Continuous agitation in a Jobo tank. 10 1/2 minutes @ 68F.

Weep+Angel+008-4.jpg


Next question? 😎
 
Last edited:
Don't get me wrong I love Xtol too, that's why I have some. I was just curious as to the switch if things were working out with D-76.

I try not to chop and change too much but that's a personal thing I guess!
 
I switched D-76 1:1 to Xtol 1:3 because I can use less Xtol per unit of film. And the 1:3 dilutuon provides longer developing times with continuous agitation. The fact the I love the negatives is a plus. Xtol is NOT more expensive than D-76. Using Xtol 1:3 vs. D-76 1:1 AND using less Xtol for each roll/sheet of film, Xtol is considerably cheaper than D-76. Don't look at just the price per bag.
 
I've said this before but you need to adjust your development and fil EI
Sacrifice a roll by shooting a knwon scene and expose -2,-1,0,+1,+2 - BLANK - repeat
Then develop in your normal procedure a strip of film and check which of the frames look better and adjust your EI in the camera

You can repeat this test with more pieces of the test film.
Do one variable at the time:
- Agitate only one/minute
- Cut your dev time by 10% (lower contrast) or increase by 10% (increase contrast)
- Diluting Xtol to 1+1 or 1+3 should give you softer pictures as well
 
kemal_mumcu said:
I've kinda settled on PX125 and Neopan 1600 for the films that I like the best. Actually, I'm working with Neopan 1600 and seeing if I like it better than pushed TriX at 1000 and although I haven't developed the Neopan with D76 I think I'll go this route for the next year or so.
Click to expand...

So, if I understood you correctly, you are doing Neopan 1600 in XTOL, which is what you are having your problem with, but you've never done Neopan 1600 in D76?

Just note that Neopan 1600 is not an ISO 1600 film, so you are pushing it rating it at box speed and developing accordingly, so it's going to be contrasty. It might even be a bigger push at 1600 than Tri-X is at 1000.

Instead of switching developers and film at the same time, why don't you try some of the 125PX in XTOL. 1:1 is a good way to use it. I shoot mostly Tri-X, 125PX, and TMZ and develop it in XTOL 1:1 with good results.

If I misunderstood what you are saying, just ignore me 😀
 
I'm using X-Tol (1+3) with HP5 and am very happy with the results.

I decided to simplify and so I use Ralph Lambrecht's recommendation (normal contrast : over expose by 2/3 stop, underdevelop by 15%, high contrast overexpose by 1+1/3 stop, underdevelop by 30%, low contrast expose at box speed and develop normally)

Development times are take from the old X-Tol document at Kodak.
 
Both of the films you are using are subject to high contrast if over-developed. Yhe only time I have used XTol at stock strenght was with PanF+, which also is subject to high contrast if exposure and development aren't spot on.

I haven't used Xtol stock since and probably won't again excep for special circumstances.

I usually use Xtol 1:1, sometimes with a shot of Rodinal. Wayne does really nice work with the 1:3 dilution. I don't agitate much.
 
[/QUOTE]Instead of switching developers and film at the same time, why don't you try some of the 125PX in XTOL. 1:1 is a good way to use it. I shoot mostly Tri-X, 125PX, and TMZ and develop it in XTOL 1:1 with good results.

If I misunderstood what you are saying, just ignore me 😀[/QUOTE]

Do you mean 1+1 or 1:1? 1:1 is the same as stock.

Cheers,
Michiel Fokkema
 
Sorry for the notational ambiguity. 😀 1+1 if you prefer. I was NOT referring to developer:final solution, but developer:water. Developer:water (1:1) is actually how Kodak refers to it in their technical data.
 
Instead of switching developers and film at the same time, why don't you try some of the 125PX in XTOL. 1:1 is a good way to use it. I shoot mostly Tri-X, 125PX, and TMZ and develop it in XTOL 1:1 with good results.

If I misunderstood what you are saying, just ignore me 😀[/quote]

Do you mean 1+1 or 1:1? 1:1 is the same as stock.

Cheers,
Michiel Fokkema[/quote]

From Kodak Tech Pub J109:

You can dilute XTOL Developer 1:1 with water
(developer:water) for one-shot (single-use) processing.
Dilution at 1:1 will provide slightly greater film speed,
enhanced sharpness and shadow detail, and slightly more
grain.​
 
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