Yashica Mat 124G vs Rolleiflex MX (vs SLR)

[B.Toews]

Hi All,

I'm currently trying to decide on what to buy for my first MF camera. I currently have a budget of around $300. I would be mainly using the camera for landscape work (including long exposures), but also for the occasional portrait and possibly street work as well. The cameras that I'm considering (with KEH prices for the 1st and 3rd) are:

Yashica Mat 124G $278 (EX+)
Rolleiflex MX $250
Bronica SQ-A, 80/2.8 PS, 120 Back, MF Prism $272 (all BGN)

I like that the Yashica is fairly light, reasonably small, quiet and lacking a moving mirror. On the other hand, using filters would be harder than with the Bronica. I'd would also potentially miss not having multiple lenses and backs. Looking through Flickr, I also see a large variability in IQ between photos, although I assume this is due to haze or other lens afflictions rather than QC problems. I should mention that I was quite happy with the results that I got with an original Yashica Mat that I borrowed for a few weeks, which had a very clean taking lens.

I’m also interested in a Rolleiflex MX. How do the lenses compare to the 124G’s? I would expect the Rollei to have a better build quality, which I would consider to be a bonus. I have heard that the 124G has a brighter screen compared to the MX, I’m not sure if this is the case, but I assume it that is true, the issue could be alleviated with a Maxwell screen (and I also assume that Maxwell screens are compatible with the MX)? Also, are there any differences between the MX and MX-EVS other than the exposure coupling?

I like that the Bronica natively shoots 6x6, with the possibility of using a 645 back as well. I assume it's around the same size as a M645, which I've handled but never shot with. I already own 67mm filters, so I wouldn’t need a new size, and since the camera is a SLR, using filters would be easier compared to the TLRs. My main concern is build quality, and reliability (especially with the backs). Weight is also a possible concern, especially while traveling (with the setup that I have picked out, it would be roughly twice the weight of the TLRs). I expect I’d be using it in addition to one of my RFs and a DSLR (5D or 7D), and hiking with that setup would likely feel heavy after a while. I would be doing a mix of handheld and tripod shooting, and mirror vibrations are also a concern.

Any input is appreciated!

 

[Armoured]

Personally I think the TLR makes more sense for a first MF - lighter, smaller, simpler, less likely to malfunction or have issues. Plus it will be a different experience and interesting.

A lot will depend on the specific camera and the shape it's in. Both the Rollei and Yashica are good cameras - all things being equal most would prefer the Rolleiflex and easier to sell later (if you change your mind), but that's if they are in equally good shape. There are plenty of other TLRs (Autocord, Ricoh, etc) that are also good, and some might be cheaper, so if you can find one in good shape that you can test/check, you might consider one of those.

 

[Dan Daniel]

For street work, an SQ-A is going to be clunky. Doable, but clunky. All in all, comparing TLRs to SLRs is hard to do. But I bet more landscape people use SLRs than TLRs? It just seems that way to me. Maybe if you are going to go a tripod, why not go for the swinging mirror anyway?

The MX is from the late 40s. It will be old. I overhaul them and sell them and get closer to $350 or more for one. The price you give of $250 is a little low for a working MX, so be careful.

The Xenar, on many MX's, is an excellent lens. Probably the best Tessar-type lens I have ever used was a Xenar on an MX. Sample variation is always an issue on older lenses, but still...

Overall condition is the most important thing. Any of the camera you mention will give you good results and are worth owning.

 

[miragem5]

Well I can not comment on the Bronica as i don't own one but I have 3 X Yashica-mats, an Autocord, 2 X Rolleicords , an MX EVS Flex etc .Yashica's have nice bright easy to focus screens as does the Autocord , the older Rollei stuff is more difficult to view and I have a Rolleigrid in the MX-EVS and Oleson screen in my VB cord to help .
The variation in quality of photos from all these cameras is more than likely fogged lenses , everyone of my cameras has had dirty glass and mirrors to some extent as they range in age from 40-60 years old , Yashica-mat 124G's appear to suffer the rear taking element becoming fogged from plastics or oil Plus the dreaded fungus eating into the glass and I had to find a donor camera to repair my very mint hardly used 124g
As for the lenses on these things if used correctly and the glass is clean you would find it near impossible to pick them apart at f8-f16 , I like them all and it comes down to what one shall I use this time . Perhaps the Autocord I like to us in low light tripod shots as the lens gives a nice centre photo wide open with nice colours .
Also bear in mind that Maxwell screens will add a extra wollop to the cost of a Rollei which is why I us the Oleson and Rolleigrid in mine .

Steff with communicator by steveod2007, on Flickr

 

[CMur12]

Brendan, the photos you posted from the Yashica-Mat and the Mamiya RB-67 really impressed me and I thought of you as an accomplished medium format shooter until I discovered that your personal cameras were all 35mm! So, I'm pleased that you are looking for an MF camera of your own.

The Bronica SLR would clearly give you more flexibility, but I have a strong bias for TLRs and their elegantly simple, rugged, vibrationless functioning. I almost always shoot mine on a tripod in order to get the very best out of them. I like SLRs in 35mm, but the mirrors in MF SLRs just seem (to me) too big, heavy, and vibration-prone, especially if they are of the rapid-return type.

You say that filters are easier with an SLR, but I'm not sure what you mean by that. I find filters easier with my TLRs because I don't have to look through them to focus and compose. Maybe you meant that standard threaded filters for a Bronica SLR would be more easily obtained than the Bay-1 filters for the TLRs in question.

I have had several older Yashica-Mats and I always got good images from them. I have had problems with the winding mechanism of more than one of them, however.

My top TLRs are a Minolta Autocord CdS-III, a Mamiya C330f, and a Rolleiflex T. My overall favorite is probably the Autocord, closely followed by the Mamiya, then the Rollei, though it would cause me great distress to part with any one of them. The Autocord is very rugged and has excellent optics, though it may be hard to find one. Autocords also allow multiple exposures, if that is important to you. The Achilles heel of the Autocord is the focusing lever if the lubricant has solidified. If the focusing is stiff and you try to force it, you risk breaking off the focusing lever.

I had an older Rollei briefly, but it had some wobble in the lensboard from wear and a technician told me that it would be very expensive to repair that on a Rollei. The same technician told me that such a repair on an Autocord would be much simpler and relatively inexpensive.

- Murray

 

[bucs]

The Yashica Mat 124G has a meter 🙂

I however have settled for Rolleicords from all the TLRs I've tried. They tend to be cheaper but are equipped with capable Xenar lenses

And someone might correct me but I think the knob wind is less prone to damage than the crank wind TLRs

 

[Mablo]

The Yashica Mat 124G has a meter 🙂

I however have settled for Rolleicords from all the TLRs I've tried. They tend to be cheaper but are equipped with capable Xenar lenses

And someone might correct me but I think the knob wind is less prone to damage than the crank wind TLRs

My words exactly. I just love how the Xenar renders black and white.

 

[leicapixie]

Rollei best

Rollei best

I am using a Rolleiflex MX made about 1953..
The Tessar which is contrasty and sharp.
The Yashica TLR are good cameras but the Rollei is better, for me.
SLR is not a TLR.
The wrong way round image, the belly focus, the simple slowness,
can be both a hindrance and a blessing.
The Rollei system means camera, Y-G filter, lens hood, a roll of film.
I can take months to expose one 12 exposure roll..
The Bronica for me in the model Bronica-c, long perished,😡
was a total disaster, as were all Bronica till Nikon stepped in and gave them a big upheave!
Nikon was mad about that it was their lenses on those critters.
Mine could shred film, like the CIA, eject better my film than a crazed toaster, and giving varying spacing that would need Alaska for territorial grab..
Bronica really did get better, but i have never held one again..
The good thing it led to my M3 in 1966.
So go for Rollei, see about return if too bad..
Mine has dings, leather worn, but shoots great.
Just slowly.😀

 

[ray*j*gun]

I recently bought an Autocord and I had wanted one for years..... well, on the very first roll the crank jammed and I found out later that is a problem with some of the Autocords. I have had a number of Yashicas and they have all worked flawlessly and they are cranks...sop... you takes your chances. Never had Rollie TLR and the prices always seem out of line for me.

 

[Pioneer]

I have the Y-Mat and the Rollei MX-EVS.
They are both good cameras and both take great pictures.
The Rollie is smoother.
My Ikoflex IIa is just as smooth and cost $90.

 

[nikon_sam]

I have the Yashicamat 124g and it's in like new condition...very happy with the results from the Yashinon lens...and everything works as it should...
I also have the Mamiya m645 with both the prism finder and WLF...I've used this for street shooting and find it easy to do especially with the WLF...the SLRs are heavier but you get used to the extra weight.
I use Series VI filters on the TLR, you can find bayonet adapters, filter holders and hoods so using a filter is no big deal either...and I prefer not having to focus through the filter...

 

[ottluuk]

You have Leicas... sooner or later you'll want a nice Rollei. Of the Tessar/Xenar-equipped models, check out a Rolleicord Vb or Rolleiflex T. Or, for a budget-breaking but otherwise awesome camera, see Rolleiflex 3.5C Planar/ 3.5 E Type 1 from 1956 (generally the cheapest of the Planar/Xenotar equipped models).

 

[B.Toews]

Thank you all for the replies and input! After much consideration, I have ordered the EX+ 124G. I decided that I preferred the light weight, smaller size and lack of mirror vibrations of a TLR for the time being. I strongly suspected that the 124G would be in better condition compared to the MX, so I opted for the former.

A smaller concern with the Bronica was that I would quickly want to replace it with a Hasselblad, although obviously the 124G is not immune to the same situation with a Rolleiflex. I will shoot with the 124G for the next 6-12 months, and then consider adding a 3.5F or 500CM if I feel that the 124G is lacking in a specific area.

A few specific replies:

Brendan, the photos you posted from the Yashica-Mat and the Mamiya RB-67 really impressed me and I thought of you as an accomplished medium format shooter until I discovered that your personal cameras were all 35mm! So, I'm pleased that you are looking for an MF camera of your own.

You say that filters are easier with an SLR, but I'm not sure what you mean by that. I find filters easier with my TLRs because I don't have to look through them to focus and compose. Maybe you meant that standard threaded filters for a Bronica SLR would be more easily obtained than the Bay-1 filters for the TLRs in question.

Thank you Murray! My comment referring to filters largely comes from GND filters. With an SLR, you can obviously see exactly where the gradient is at any time, whereas there is a bit of guessing involved with a TLR or RF. Polarizers are somewhat similar, although in practice I have used them with both TLRs and RFs with relative ease.

The Yashica Mat 124G has a meter 🙂

I'm used to using meterless cameras at this point, but that is a small bonus!

You have Leicas... sooner or later you'll want a nice Rollei.

Something that I admit will likely happen down the road. I expect that eventually I will look into buying a 3.5F (or a 2.8 of some sort), just as I will eventually consider buying a Hasselblad. On the plus side, experimenting with that sort of gear is inexpensive, going on the rather safe assumption that I can easily sell those cameras for what I bought them for if things don't work out. I suspect that the 124G will be a good starting point, and I'll reassess my MF gear in a year or so if I decide that something is lacking.

 

[B.Toews]

And here it is!


124G by Brendan | Toews, on Flickr

 

[nikon_sam]

Get a lens hood...this is how I set up mine...plus it lets me use Series VI filters...top hood is Series V and bottom Series VI...Had to cut the top hood to fit it all together...

 

[CMur12]

That's a classy picture of your new Yashica-Mat, Brendan!

If you decide to look for a lens hood and filters on eBay, I have found that original Yashica lens hoods go for as much as the Rollei version, so I would go for the latter. You can also get Rollei Bay-1 filters for reasonable prices.

There is a generic lens hood that they are selling on eBay, but it uses the inner bayonet normally used for filters, rather than the outer bayonet normally used for lens hoods. If you don't use filters, this should be a decent, inexpensive solution. At the same time, many, if not most, Bay-1 filters don't have a second bayonet for stacking filters or adding a lens hood, so you may want to stick with a standard lens hood that uses the outer bayonet.

- Murray

 

[bucs]

Enjoy your new camera!

It won't disappoint for sure 🙂

 

[B.Toews]

Thanks for the additional information everyone! I loaded the 124G with Delta 100 earlier today, and had a fun afternoon of landscape shooting!

I'm actually down in Florida at the moment, but I will be starting the drive back home to Ontario tomorrow. I'll be stopping in the Outer Banks on the way home, so that should give me a good opportunity to get well acquainted with the 124G. I'll start looking for a hood when I get back to Ontario. I have a local film equipment store that I'm hoping will have one in stock!

 

[f16sunshine]

Bay 1 to threaded adapters are nice too.
I have a bunch of 46mm filters for my RF's from when I used the Contax G system and, years ago got a bay one to 46mm adapter that I have used on My Y-Mats and also Rolleiflex T.
The Yashinon lens is close to a 40mm equivalent in 135mm for the sake of choosing the correct hood.
I used a metal hood I had for a Contax G series f2/45mm and never found trouble with vignetting.
There are many different ways you could go.
The original Bay one hoods are of course great too. Finding high quality modern filters is not as easy in bay 1 as it is with Bay 3.
That is why I chose to adapt to 46mm.
Since you use OM's you may find 49mm is even better for you although... it may start to infringe on the viewing lens (I don't know that one way or the other).

Cheers!

 

[mooge]

a little too late to be helpful but for the record:

two notable differences between the MX and MX-EVS:
- MX has a min. focus of 0,8m vs. 0,9m on the EVS
- MX-EVS can do double exposures and the MX cannot. I can't remember why but I found this feature useful, and not for anything to do with double exposures. Possibly having to do with my self timer working 50% of the time.

on the MX-EVS:
- it, and the MX (I think) have the super-cool sports finder with auxiliary mirror for focusing. Of course, I've never used this feature.
- it's possibly the most "German" camera I own. Breaks down all the time, incredible finish and attention to detail. Definitely designed by engineers.
- yes, the groundglass is dim, but it's really easy to focus. I put a Rick Oleson screen in mine, but I didn't like the tradeoff of brightness for more difficult focusing. The corners do get hella dark on the stock focusing screen though.

Vs. Yashica-mats:
-the Rolleis don't make a rattling noise when wound, unlike some (?) Yashicas. I'm not really sure why that is, because the rollei has a ratchet in the winding mechanism and if you put it together partially, it rattles. but anyways.



Hasselblads - if I recall there was a hasselblad kit on the forums here, in Canada, that took forever to sell - it was super cheap though, something like $900, with three lenses and backs and stuff. Or something like that. so I think they're pretty reasonably priced nowadays. I'm borrowing one and somehow I'm shooting mostly FP-3000b though it... I'd recommend a RB67 if you want to shoot instant though - 6x6 is too small.

anyways...