Yet another Leica IIIc light leak

[OlleJ]

I have a -46 IIIc with a light leak (see att.) It's being serviced now, but so far the serviceman hasn't been able to locate the leak.
Any ideas?
Best regards
Olle

 

[ZorkiKat]

That looks like light breaching under the curtains. Happens when the baffle frames/plates inside the camera's throat are loose or improperly installed. The main baffle plate has to be installed so that it doesn't give the curtain blinds a very loose channel to traverse in. And there are also felt (similar to those found in 35mm cassette lips) liners on the top and bottom sides of this baffle frame.

What repair did this Leica have? Shutter replacement? This involves removal of the baffles and the subsequent reassembly may have put the baffles wrong.

Check too that the curtains are taut in either the cocked and fired positions. Loose installation can make them look wavy (can't think of a better term) and this looseness can make light breach through their edges.

Was the lens removed when this frame was in the film gate? Try not to remove the lens under direct strong light. Any Leica has the potential to get leaks this way, regardless of their condition.

Edit: One more thing: if the curtain has been replaced, installing one that is too narrow (ie, less than 32mm wide) will also lead to light breaching.

 

[payasam]

Bottom light shield, as said. I had the same problem with a IIIc some years ago, though rather less severe than this. Happened only when the camera's throat was exposed to light. Was quickly set right (I didn't do it myself).

 

[OlleJ]

What repair did this Leica have? Shutter replacement? This involves removal of the baffles and the subsequent reassembly may have put the baffles wrong.

I bought this camera last spring in a shop, which more or less is specialized in Leica. It's my first Leica, buy the way, otherwise being a Nikon SLR user. I really like this nice little thing.
The shop normally includes a delivery service in the price for old cameras that have been sitting on the shelf for some time. I knew already when I bought it that the slow speed governor was not working properly (surprise🙂).
I ran a couple of rolls through it first though, before turning it in for the service.
After the first roll I noticed this kind of leak in some of the frames. Initially I got the impression it happened when the sun was either coming from above or straight from the side, but perhaps that has nothing to do with it. Perhaps I have changed lenses in too strong light, as you suggest. I don't remember now. Anyway, I mentioned the leakage problem when I turned it in for the service.
After developing the first post-service roll I noticed the leakage was still there in some frames. The shop was then closed for summer vacation, being a one man shop.
I again turned it in in mid august. It's still there. I talk to the man once a week. His main problem is making the slow speed governor, which is very worn, run reliably. I guess he hasn't looked to deep into this particular leakage problem yet.

The attached image shows one of the worst frames. Most of them are not this bad, and many don't have the problem at all.

I might also try to point the camera in a darker direction in the future, when I change lenses. Being new to old Leicas, perhaps I put too much trust in the curtains.

 

[payasam]

I suggest that you say to your repair person, "Bottom light shield." There's no evidence of anything being wrong with the curtains. As I said, I've had precisely this problem. There should be a thread about it, with photos, somewhere on RFF.

 

[ZorkiKat]

There are two places which you'd have to check. One is the shutter crate as I mentioned in an earlier post:

The Light Shield Baffle, shown in the right, can be one source of the problem. It goes over the shutter and into the crate. The shutter is "sandwiched" between the crate (and film gate) and the shield. The distance between the Baffle and the Main Crate should not be too wide since this can let light in. Too great a distance, and the curtains can actually buckle a bit and let light in. Two pieces of felt/plush fabric are placed on the upper and lower sides, just above the cut-out, to seal the curtains in and reduce the possibility of light coming in. The felt/plush fabric can wear out and the gap between the shield and curtains become unprotected.

The shield is one flat piece so there's really no point in specifying "upper" or "lower" baffle. Moving it will move everything.

Loose curtains CAN also lead to this sort of fogging. I have two examples which fogged in the way that your example did. These are evidence which can show what this defect can do:

As you can see, the fogging patterns are quite similar to those which you have. The curtains in this camera were new and were cut to proper size.
The fogging occurred with the lens on the camera all the time. ISO 400 was used. The fogging also manifested only in two or three frames in the entire roll.

I was surprised to see the fogging, but it turned out that the 2nd curtain was glued in a way that it looked wrinkled/wavy/loose instead of stretched and taut as it should be. Regluing the shutter to make it really taut eliminated the problem. It also appears that the fogging only happened when the film wasn't advanced immediately after exposure, and the frame sat for some time behind the loosely covering 2nd curtain blind.

I know these because I did the repairs myself.😎

In the case of your camera, you may have to ask if the shop has ever repaired the shutter. Or it could be that it may have received a shutter replacement long before you bought it.

Can you check if the shutter is still original? Repaired shutters often don't have sewn edges- this you can see with a half-cocked shutter. Those repaired with replacement cloth is almost always glued. The replacement cloth isn't always of the proper width, since repairment always cut this from a larger piece and may have erred in measuring. A shutter with less width than necessary will barely cover the film gate and light can breach through it.

In time the old curtains, or the newer replacements can sag.

As for the slow speed mechanism, it's typical for older Leicas to hang at the slow settings. It will need extensive cleaning to remove the old gunk and new oil applied.

 

[LeicaTom]

Yeah, I think it`s the bottom light shield too.........many WW2 era IIIC`s were "updated" with 1946/47 era bottom light shields by the factory, while the early IIIC K`s didn`t have a light shield either, perhaps something`s not attached properly?

Tom

 

[ZorkiKat]

Yeah, I think it`s the bottom light shield too.........many WW2 era IIIC`s were "updated" with 1946/47 era bottom light shields by the factory, while the early IIIC K`s didn`t have a light shield either, perhaps something`s not attached properly?

Tom

Tom, my 1946/47 "stepper" IIIc has a similar single piece light shield too.

 

[LeicaTom]

Tom, my 1946/47 "stepper" IIIc has a similar single piece light shield too.

Yes, I think? ....that those one piece shields came about June or July 1945, b/c my May 8th 1945 IIIC K still does`nt have the light shield, but my Chrome July 24th IIIC K has them and my August 4th 1945 IIIC K Grey has them too.

If you have a late "stepper" like #392xxx or higher than they all had that light shield, post #392xxx is all 1946 US Army issue.

Tom

 

[OlleJ]

Thanks to you all for your help!
I mailed a link to this thread to the repairman.
I got my camera back yesterday and have just put in a new roll to test it.
I hope it's ok now.