Zeiss 40MM Sonnar ?

[summaron]

awilder's analysis sounds right -- I did hear someone say the older one was "sweeter" which acknowledges that the character was slightly different. The superiority of the 35S Sonnar over the 35T Tessar was supposed to be that the 35S was sharper wide open. The out of focus handling of the both the 2.8 versions is very handsome, but seems to be rather austere and sober compared to that of the exuberant 1.5 Sonnars.

 

[Hacker]

I wonder if there are a few rare prototypes around? I predict the 40mm Sonnar to become a rare classic collectable, im still surprised how little they go for.

I had a black prototype and sold it to a friend. Red words instead of green on the lens, but looked exactly the same as my current black version (sans the word Sonnar).

 

[Hacker]

Samples anyone?

 

[jonmanjiro]

It can be quite deceptive. I remember looking at a rare 40mm 1.8 Helios Lens and they came up for sale every few months and I wondered how many were produced so kept track of the serial numbers only to find there were only about 6 prototypes recirculating. Alot of the production of the Rollie RF and lenses went to Japan, more so than anywhere else so that could account for you seeing more there.

I remember reading Jari's comment regarding the email he received on the numbers. The only reason I question it is the sheer numbers of the lens I've seen recently. At one point, Fujiya Camera had at least 30 of these lenses, all boxed and never used, all lined up in one cabinet. It was quite a sight. I also saw a similar amount at MAP Camera. Hard to believe I could see 1/8 of the total production within a couple of hours...😕

 

[f16sunshine]

Cute kid. Thanks for posting

 

[sepiareverb]

...At one point, Fujiya Camera had at least 30 of these lenses, all boxed and never used, all lined up in one cabinet. It was quite a sight. I also saw a similar amount at MAP Camera. Hard to believe I could see 1/8 of the total production within a couple of hours...😕

Perhaps why the 50 & 28 were never produced? Sales like that might make a company think twice.

 

[casualuser]

I am surprised that any new ones are left. How long ago did they stop making these?

Even with inventory available from Rollei I am not sure that is a reason to not come out with a new version. If that logic prevailed then they would have never jumped into the ZM line of lenses at any FL. On that note does anyone know definitively why Zeiss bothered to enter the M Mount market at all - it is not exactly a large market. Does it help to remind us of the quality of their lenses for "serious photographers" which translates into them being a quality supplier for their mass market lenses going into the digital cameras?

 

[summaron]

On that note does anyone know definitively why Zeiss bothered to enter the M Mount market at all - it is not exactly a large market.

Actually the 40mm Sonnar is a screw mount lens, so it's the LTM market. Wasn't Leica reissuing lenses in thread mount format about the same time?

Here's some info on the development of the first version Sonnar which became a bit of a nightmare for Rollei. It's from a Rollei List and the commentators are referring to a book by Claus Prochnow, the camera's designer. The insightful Wikipedia entry on the Rollei 35 also cites this comment.

Richard Weiss, Rollei technical manager, said that the failure about the first Sonnar prototype left Rollei in a precarious position with considerable losses, in the future even lenses from Carl Zeiss would be tested earlier and more critically: "we have learnt our lesson”

http://www.freelists.org/post/rollei_list/Tessar-vs-Sonnar,11

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollei_35

 

[casualuser]

Actually I was referring to Zeiss's decision to enter the m mount market - the ZM series.

Interesting info on Rollei, thanks.

 

[summaron]

I read your post too quickly, apologies. With all of this late flowering of M mount stuff -- with Konica, Zeiss and Rollei -- it must have seemed to be a moment to give the world -- and their designers -- a last chance at pure, direct photography.

Of all people they must see first hand what a nightmare of inane and corrosive post-production choices (starting way before you even press the shutter) that the digital revolution has brought to still photography.

 

[Palaeoboy]

I remember reading Jari's comment regarding the email he received on the numbers. The only reason I question it is the sheer numbers of the lens I've seen recently. At one point, Fujiya Camera had at least 30 of these lenses, all boxed and never used, all lined up in one cabinet. It was quite a sight. I also saw a similar amount at MAP Camera. Hard to believe I could see 1/8 of the total production within a couple of hours...😕

Were there RF camera bodies there too? The lenses were mainly sold with the Rf camera bodies and only a few were sold separately. Mainly towards the end when they werent shifting did they split kits up. Are you sure they were all lenses? The Hood box is identical in colour and writing, although slightly shorter, from a distance it could easily mistake as a lens. I have been trying to keep track of serial numbers and it seems the same small batch of lenses rotating as people trying out of curiosity and on sell them. The rest must be in the hands of the dedicated and plan to keep them too. I will hang on to mine without doubt.

 

[back alley]

can the 'sonnar look' be measured?

as in, which has the more sonnar look, the zm 50/1.5 or the rollei 40/2?

 

[jonmanjiro]

Were there RF camera bodies there too? The lenses were mainly sold with the Rf camera bodies and only a few were sold separately. Mainly towards the end when they werent shifting did they split kits up. Are you sure they were all lenses? The Hood box is identical in colour and writing, although slightly shorter, from a distance it could easily mistake as a lens. I have been trying to keep track of serial numbers and it seems the same small batch of lenses rotating as people trying out of curiosity and on sell them. The rest must be in the hands of the dedicated and plan to keep them too. I will hang on to mine without doubt.

Yes, both shops had about 10 unused Rollei 35RF bodies each - all separately boxed. The lenses were definitely all lenses - not hoods. Well, they were certainly priced like lenses rather than hoods - about 45,000 yen. I think most of the stock is sold by now, but there's anything left, I'll snap a pic with my mobile phone camera next time I'm at the shops.

 

[axiom]

can the 'sonnar look' be measured?

as in, which has the more sonnar look, the zm 50/1.5 or the rollei 40/2?

The Rollei 40mm is a traditional 5 elements in 4 groups Sonnar design with the last 2 cemented elements behind aperture,
The ZM C Sonnar is a 6 elements in 4 groups with 3 cemented elements behind the aperture.

If "sonnar look" is co-related to "traditionality", then I guess I have an answer
(ok, i m making up words)

 

[jonmanjiro]

Were there RF camera bodies there too? The lenses were mainly sold with the Rf camera bodies and only a few were sold separately. Mainly towards the end when they werent shifting did they split kits up. Are you sure they were all lenses? The Hood box is identical in colour and writing, although slightly shorter, from a distance it could easily mistake as a lens. I have been trying to keep track of serial numbers and it seems the same small batch of lenses rotating as people trying out of curiosity and on sell them. The rest must be in the hands of the dedicated and plan to keep them too. I will hang on to mine without doubt.

I dropped by Fujiya Camera and MAP Camera today, and snapped a few shots of their remaining Rollei 35RF stock.

Fujiya had just two sonnar 40/2.8 lenses (s/n's were 9250160 & 9320294) and two Rollei 35RF kits (body, lens, grip).

MAP Camera had three sonnar 40/2.8's (s/n's were from front to back 9250009, 9250030, 9240136) and two Rollei 35RF bodies.

Is that any help in solving the mystery, Joel?

 

[Palaeoboy]

Is that any help in solving the mystery, Joel?

I love your Japanese Camera shop pics they make me drool (Especially your latest Nikon RF ones)

The serial numbers were most helpful but I still dont have definitive proof of the numbers quoted by Rollei as yet based on the numbers I have so far. If anyone else who owns the Rollei 40mm RF could private message me the serial number of their lenses and tell me if its chrome or black I would be very grateful. (I may start a new thread if not many 40mm Sonnar owners are reading this thread. Thanks

 

[jdvf]

9250241 (black)

Greg

 

[Trius]

Is that not a really good price for a black Sonnar 40/2.8?

 

[noimmunity]

I notice in the third photo there is a black 40/2.8 that is selling for 19,280 yen, while a silver one at the same store in the photo above is selling for 68,000 (and above that there are two for 49,000). I suppose the black one must have some of the haze that was mentioned earlier?

(Joel, I'll send the serial number of mine when I return to Shanghai...I'm in Taipei right now).

 

[jonmanjiro]

I notice in the third photo there is a black 40/2.8 that is selling for 19,280 yen, while a silver one at the same store in the photo above is selling for 68,000 (and above that there are two for 49,000). I suppose the black one must have some of the haze that was mentioned earlier?

Picked it in one, Jon! That black sonnar has haze, hence the low price.

I didn't think to check more closely when I was in the store, but the 68,000 yen price tag on the silver sonnar at MAP seems high. Maybe it comes with extras (hood etc.).