Does anyone know of a simple zeiss family tree, like those posters that camera brands had at stores in years gone past.
-Rob Skeoch
-Rob Skeoch
pizzahut88
Well-known
I would love to see one as well!
I would love to see one as well!
I know Nikon, Canon has one . . .
Where's Zeiss?
I would love to see one as well!
I know Nikon, Canon has one . . .
Where's Zeiss?
Sonnar2
Well-known
The tree in this case would look kind of weird
jgeenen
Established
A single tree? No, more of a botanic garden like the famous Eden II project ;-)
mbisc
Silver Halide User
For Zeiss Cameras, the tree is very easy -- it's empty. Zeiss has never made cameras, ever. The Zeiss Stiftung owned Zeiss Ikon until about 1973(?), which is turn was a conglomeration of various camera manufacturers (merged in the 1920s and 1930s), but Zeiss Ikon and Zeiss were always separate companies. The modern Zeiss Ikon -- although co-designed by Zeiss -- is really a Cosina camera.
Quercus
Quercus
and of course if you took the whole of what had zeiss on it or became part of zeiss or CZ or even what left CZ where would voigtlander - rollei and even Jena fit more like the rock family trees you used to get in NME (?) than that of a kamera / optical manufacturer
But at least you can now by very similar cameras from voigtlander / rollei and CZ
mmmm maybe the icarex/rollei dream really has come true
But at least you can now by very similar cameras from voigtlander / rollei and CZ
mmmm maybe the icarex/rollei dream really has come true
ZeissFan
Veteran
The Zeiss Ikon is NOT a Cosina camera. It is built by Cosina. It does not use the Cosina body. It does not use the Cosina rangefinder components. It is not made on the same line as Cosina's Voigtlander bodies.
It is a German camera made in Japan. Are Toyotas, Hondas and Nissans built in the U.S. considered American autos? Definitely not. They are considered Japanese cars. Same with the Zeiss Ikon.
The late history of Zeiss Ikon is a bit convoluted when taken into consideration the roles of Voigtlander and to some degree Rollei.
Carl Zeiss did make a plate camera more than 100 years ago, and the Werra rangefinder was a Carl Zeiss Jena product. However, much depends on whether Carl Zeiss Jena is to be considered a branch of Carl Zeiss or an unrelated entity. Certainly, when East Germany fell, Carl Zeiss Jena rejoined Carl Zeiss AG.
Final assembly of some Contarex bodies was completed by Carl Zeiss after the demise of Zeiss Ikon and are marked "Carl Zeiss" (and command a premium on the collectors' market). But these had begun life as Zeiss Ikon products and not Carl Zeiss.
So, you could argue that the Werra and Zeiss Ikon are the only two modern-day Carl Zeiss-designed bodies.
It is a German camera made in Japan. Are Toyotas, Hondas and Nissans built in the U.S. considered American autos? Definitely not. They are considered Japanese cars. Same with the Zeiss Ikon.
The late history of Zeiss Ikon is a bit convoluted when taken into consideration the roles of Voigtlander and to some degree Rollei.
Carl Zeiss did make a plate camera more than 100 years ago, and the Werra rangefinder was a Carl Zeiss Jena product. However, much depends on whether Carl Zeiss Jena is to be considered a branch of Carl Zeiss or an unrelated entity. Certainly, when East Germany fell, Carl Zeiss Jena rejoined Carl Zeiss AG.
Final assembly of some Contarex bodies was completed by Carl Zeiss after the demise of Zeiss Ikon and are marked "Carl Zeiss" (and command a premium on the collectors' market). But these had begun life as Zeiss Ikon products and not Carl Zeiss.
So, you could argue that the Werra and Zeiss Ikon are the only two modern-day Carl Zeiss-designed bodies.
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Quercus
Quercus
Totally agree with you you Mike - is a Nikon FE10 or FM10 or canon t60 not nikons or canons all three along with many other "brand" SLR's share a lot more in comon with the voigtlander Bessa than the ZM does - all being built around the CT-1 chasis for instance - where as the ZM is a sub contacted design not a bought in rebrand. That is a massive difference.
Also does that mean that any 1970s' -2000 contax isnt really a contax or is a portugese made R3 not a leica.
What seems to be the problem i believe is that a lot of people now realise that a lot of what they believed to be better "brand" stuff as really very good quality cosina from the start - so its easier to rubbish the only brands willing to openly admit that cosina build for them ie Epson and CZ than to admit themselves that maybe their own camera really had humble origins... wonder how many nikon FM10 owners would swap for a cosina CT1
Anyway the fact that the name and unique (not better) unique optical qualities of CZ glass will still be available to new photographers is something that should be applauded.
Back to CZ (BRD) / Zeiss pre 45 / CZJ (DDR) family tree - I guess that there is probably an arguement that any cameras coming out of the BRD (west) maybe shouldnt be included in a family tree from the original ammalm of Nettar / zeiss etc. and that possibly the direct line would run through the DDR (East) jena rather trhan oberkocken
Also does that mean that any 1970s' -2000 contax isnt really a contax or is a portugese made R3 not a leica.
What seems to be the problem i believe is that a lot of people now realise that a lot of what they believed to be better "brand" stuff as really very good quality cosina from the start - so its easier to rubbish the only brands willing to openly admit that cosina build for them ie Epson and CZ than to admit themselves that maybe their own camera really had humble origins... wonder how many nikon FM10 owners would swap for a cosina CT1
Anyway the fact that the name and unique (not better) unique optical qualities of CZ glass will still be available to new photographers is something that should be applauded.
Back to CZ (BRD) / Zeiss pre 45 / CZJ (DDR) family tree - I guess that there is probably an arguement that any cameras coming out of the BRD (west) maybe shouldnt be included in a family tree from the original ammalm of Nettar / zeiss etc. and that possibly the direct line would run through the DDR (East) jena rather trhan oberkocken
Mazurka
Well-known
Quercus said:
Together withn Praktica and Guthe & Thorsche, Zeiss Ikon Dresden became Pentacon in the 1960s. I believe most people in non-Communist-bloc countries didn't consider the post-WWII VEBs to be the true Zeiss because the Allies relocated a lot of Zeiss personnel to the West around 1945.
Anyway, since the thread is about cameras and not lenses, any "direct line" from the East would have to run from Dresden where the pre-war Zeiss Ikon was located, rather than Jena.
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