Zeiss Ikon Nettars with Curved Topcover, Information wanted

[hanskerensky]

Maybe not the right place in this forum as this camera has no rangefinder but hope the administrators will forgive me 🙂


While gathering information about the Nettars for a Camera-Wiki article ( http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Nettar ) I became aware of the fact that 2 models in that successful and long lasting camera line were once produced during a rather limited time period with a curved Topcover.

It is this model, the 517/16 and its bigger (6x9) brother the Nettar 517/2.
Both models can be found very regularly with a rectangular Topcover, much more so then with this curved one.

First of all there is conflicting information about the production year(s) of the curved Nettars. Some say that they were produced before the rectangular ones, others say that they were produced after.

A help was a page in the 1952 issue of a German "Photo-Porst" catalog which clearly shows this curved model 517/16.

The total production period of the 517/16 spanned about 7 years. Starting in c.1951 and ending c.1957.
So, this curved model was certainly already early available.

To investigate matters even more I bought this camera. Nettars are generally cheap so that was not a big issue.

Apart from the curved Topcover there is another thing that stands out. It is the Lens Name plate which is different from late production Nettars. The late 517/16 Nettars have a black ring on that Name plat. This 517/16 clearly has not.

While studying that Lens Name plate I got this "déjà vu" feeling. Stumbling through my camera heap I came across my Nettar 515/16 http://flic.kr/p/76wzj1
which sports exactly the same Name plate !

The 517/16 is the follow-up of the 515/16 so guess it is save to assume that these Curved Topcover models were indeed very early.

But.......

Still a big question :
Were the Nettars with a curved Topcover maybe produced parallel to the ones with a rectangular Topcover ?

Maybe other 517/16 Nettar owners can help me find out.
With what letter does the serial number on the back of your 517/16 start ?

Mine starts with a "T" .


Nettar 517/16 Curved Topcover (01) by Hans Kerensky, on Flickr

 

[johnnyrod]

I picked up one of these the other day as a cheap way to buy the case it was in for another camera - it's presumably working but lenses don't look great, but it's an ornament now. Mine does have the black ring, and the focus pointer is a plain metal finger like my Mess Ikonta rather than the red one in your picture, and has a Pronto shutter (up to 1/200). Otherwise looks like yours. My body serial number is U23957, there doesn't appear to be one on the lens. Hope this helps, i don't know anything else about it.

 

[johnnyrod]

Actually the black ring is a gap between the focus scale and the front cell, it has grub screws around it for setting the focus up. It looks like this one but with a curved top
https://sites.google.com/site/fromthefocalplanetoinfinity/nettar

 

[hanskerensky]

Actually the black ring is a gap between the focus scale and the front cell, it has grub screws around it for setting the focus up. It looks like this one but with a curved top
https://sites.google.com/site/fromthefocalplanetoinfinity/nettar

John, thanks for that information !

Probably you have the 517/16 Nettar equipped with a 1:4.5 Novar rather then my 1:6.3 one.

 

[johnnyrod]

Yep, I forgot to mention that. How is the same adjustment made on yours? Off topic I know!

 

[pjetter]

Picked one up last week at a yard sale for $5. It looks like it's been in a drawer for 50 years but appears to work. I will put film through it soon.

It appears identical to the one in the picture.

Serial U 9346

PS. My first medium format camera! 🙂

 

[hanskerensky]

Yep, I forgot to mention that. How is the same adjustment made on yours? Off topic I know!

John, do you mean the focus setting ?

When shooting you adjust the focus by turning the frontlens. This is true for all Nettars and Ikontas.

When re-collimating the focus (after repair or CLA) the grub screws have to come loose so you can turn the frontlens till it has focus sharp on infinity and then turn the (loose) ring till on infinity mark and tighten the grub screws again.

 

[hanskerensky]

Picked one up last week at a yard sale for $5. It looks like it's been in a drawer for 50 years but appears to work. I will put film through it soon.

It appears identical to the one in the picture.

Serial U 9346

PS. My first medium format camera! 🙂

Thanks Pjetter !

So we now have at least the letters "T" and "U" for that curved topcover range of the 517/16. Great info !

Have fun with your Nettar. Basic but robust folders they are 🙂

 

[johnnyrod]

Pjetter - collimation. I guess it's easier to see the screws with it in front of you. Thanks!

 

[harryc]

I have a curved top Nettar 517/16 serial number U14012. It has a Carl Zeiss Jena 7.5cm f3.5 tessar in a Compur-Rapid 1-1/500 shutter.

 

[hanskerensky]

I have a curved top Nettar 517/16 serial number U14012. It has a Carl Zeiss Jena 7.5cm f3.5 tessar in a Compur-Rapid 1-1/500 shutter.

Sorry for the late reply Harry, we were on holidays.


Thanks for that information !

Guess your Nettar is a real oddity !
This is because of 3 things :
1) The writing of the focus distance in cm's rather then in mm's.
2) The Tessar 1:3.5 lens rather then a Novar 1:6.3 or 1:4.5
3) The Compur-Rapid shutter rather then a Pronto or Prontor-SV

Could it be possible that your 517/16 got a lens/shutter combination of another camera (e.g. from an Ikonta 521/16) ?

 

[harryc]

Thanks Hans for replying.

I checked the shutter serial number and it is probably made in 1948.

The lens is a coated Tessar with red "T" which would indicate that it was made between 1945 and 1949.

Looking inside the bellows, it does not have any marks indicating that the shutter has been removed and replace on the camera.

I am tempted to guess that this might be from a small run with the better lens on the Nettar. All the serial numbers seem to indicate it is from an immediate postwar period.

I am still searching for more info to try to confirm this.

 

[hanskerensky]

Thanks Hans for replying.

I checked the shutter serial number and it is probably made in 1948.

The lens is a coated Tessar with red "T" which would indicate that it was made between 1945 and 1949.

Looking inside the bellows, it does not have any marks indicating that the shutter has been removed and replace on the camera.

I am tempted to guess that this might be from a small run with the better lens on the Nettar. All the serial numbers seem to indicate it is from an immediate postwar period.

I am still searching for more info to try to confirm this.

Thanks Harry !

Well, it would be a real trill if proof can be found in pricelists or catalogs of that time that a Nettar with such lens/shutter combination was indeed officially sold !

Here an image where you see (on the left) same lens/shutter. But now on an Ikonta 521/16. That Ikonta (serial number starts with an O) was also produced shortly after ww2. Shutter serial number is 6344905 so also a year 1948 indicator.


Zeiss Ikon Ikonta B 521/16 Lens Note (01) by Hans Kerensky, on Flickr

 

[farlymac]

I didn't realize you started this thread, Hans. I haven't looked at the 120 RF Folders section in a while.

Anyway, here is the info from my curved top Nettar:

Lens: 1:6,3 f=75mm Novar-Anastigmat / Focus scale is in meters

Shutter: Vario B 25-75-200

Film Door Embossing: At the latch 517/16
At the frame counter window ZEISS IKON ( ) STUTTGART
Below the frame counter window MADE IN GERMANY
Stamped at the film door hinge T 27712

Camera Front Printing: ZEISS IKON Logo upper left as you look at the front
NETTAR on the lens door


On camera top: Winding direction arrow next to the winding knob

On camera bottom: No markings

Inside camera: Foto Stork Frankfurt/M. Hochst store decal

Hope this adds to your research, Hans.

PF

 

[hanskerensky]

I didn't realize you started this thread, Hans. I haven't looked at the 120 RF Folders section in a while.

Anyway, here is the info from my curved top Nettar:

Lens: 1:6,3 f=75mm Novar-Anastigmat / Focus scale is in meters

Shutter: Vario B 25-75-200

Film Door Embossing: At the latch 517/16
At the frame counter window ZEISS IKON ( ) STUTTGART
Below the frame counter window MADE IN GERMANY
Stamped at the film door hinge T 27712

Camera Front Printing: ZEISS IKON Logo upper left as you look at the front
NETTAR on the lens door


On camera top: Winding direction arrow next to the winding knob

On camera bottom: No markings

Inside camera: Foto Stork Frankfurt/M. Hochst store decal

Hope this adds to your research, Hans.

PF

Hi Phil, Great ! Thanks for that input !