totifoto
Well-known
Ok I ´m not trying to start a argument here 
I have been taking photographs for about 7 eyars now using slr/dslr and for the last 2 years I have been shooting MF and for the last few months I have been shooting with Hasselblad. I love the Carl Zeiss lenses and the sharpness I get from them is amazing.
I also have a Zorki 4, it is my first rangefinder camera I bought for 43 $ just to see if the rangefinder system is something I wanna use. I found out that I do.
Now I wanna get some better rangefinder system that gives my some good quality. I´m a part time pro photographer and I wanna give my customer quality photos.
After loking at many rangefinder systems I came down to Leica or Zeiss Ikon. I´m already in love with the zeiss lenses but I´m wondering if I should mont them on a Leica or a Zeiss Ikon.
The Zeiss is about 1400 $ but the Leica is about 3500$
I live in Iceland and there is one store here that sells and service Leica cameras but no one sells Zeiss Ikon here. But they also sell Hasselblad and Zeiss lenses so they most likely could help me out if the Zeiss camera breaks. But I ont wanna count on that.
What do you guys think? Is the Leica worth the 2100$ diffrent?
Thanx
I have been taking photographs for about 7 eyars now using slr/dslr and for the last 2 years I have been shooting MF and for the last few months I have been shooting with Hasselblad. I love the Carl Zeiss lenses and the sharpness I get from them is amazing.
I also have a Zorki 4, it is my first rangefinder camera I bought for 43 $ just to see if the rangefinder system is something I wanna use. I found out that I do.
Now I wanna get some better rangefinder system that gives my some good quality. I´m a part time pro photographer and I wanna give my customer quality photos.
After loking at many rangefinder systems I came down to Leica or Zeiss Ikon. I´m already in love with the zeiss lenses but I´m wondering if I should mont them on a Leica or a Zeiss Ikon.
The Zeiss is about 1400 $ but the Leica is about 3500$
I live in Iceland and there is one store here that sells and service Leica cameras but no one sells Zeiss Ikon here. But they also sell Hasselblad and Zeiss lenses so they most likely could help me out if the Zeiss camera breaks. But I ont wanna count on that.
What do you guys think? Is the Leica worth the 2100$ diffrent?
Thanx
thomasw_
Well-known
which new leica body is it you are comparing with the ZI, the m7 with ae? or the mp, the all mechanical?
do you want ae? if that's a criterion, then the mp is a no go.
do you want ae? if that's a criterion, then the mp is a no go.
back alley
IMAGES
this is religion here...
are you talking about things like the leica mythos or real world build quality?
are you talking about the quality of the older m2 and m3 or modern leicas like the m7?
are you talking about the weight of the camera body?
for me, from my experience and from reading on this and other forums...i think the quality of modern cameras, both leica & zeiss are on par. leica no longer uses the best quality parts and workmanship is not like that of the old days. the zi is lighter than a leica but i like that. the feel of the zi is exquisite as is the feel of older ms.
i doubt that one really has much real world difference over the other.
are you talking about things like the leica mythos or real world build quality?
are you talking about the quality of the older m2 and m3 or modern leicas like the m7?
are you talking about the weight of the camera body?
for me, from my experience and from reading on this and other forums...i think the quality of modern cameras, both leica & zeiss are on par. leica no longer uses the best quality parts and workmanship is not like that of the old days. the zi is lighter than a leica but i like that. the feel of the zi is exquisite as is the feel of older ms.
i doubt that one really has much real world difference over the other.
totifoto
Well-known
thomasw_ said:
Well I have been loking at the M6 and M7. I usually go all manual.
totifoto
Well-known
back alley said:this is religion here...
are you talking about things like the leica mythos or real world build quality?
are you talking about the quality of the older m2 and m3 or modern leicas like the m7?
are you talking about the weight of the camera body?
Are the older cameras like m2 and m3 better then the m6 and m7?
I just wanna reliable camera that is easy to work with. If its lighter that thats great. I have always been using some heavy cameras like the haselblad 500 series and Canon with big L lenses, would be a nice change to work with something lighter
oscroft
Veteran
An M6 will cost you a *lot* less than $3500!
sirius
Well-known
I don't think you could go wrong with either. If you are also considering it as an investment, used cameras keep their value better than new. Buy used and try it for a while and you can sell it for roughly the same price...Older cameras may do the job just fine but you have more issues with repair/wearing-out and always lose some of the modern advancements (light meter etc...). It depends which camera looks the most attractive to how you want to work. As far as I can tell, the ZI and M7 offer the same package. Maybe the M7 is quieter...
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mervynyan
Mervyn Yan
here is what you must do.
for $3500 price tag and can't decide which one? why not buy a ZI and a M6 both. if you like one "far" more than the other, you know which to keep. after that, if you decide to go AP mode and want to check out M7, sell both to get and M7; the other way around to get a MP.
it is like ordering pizza, try as many toppings you like, eventually you will settle for one topping..
my 2 cents,
cheers,
for $3500 price tag and can't decide which one? why not buy a ZI and a M6 both. if you like one "far" more than the other, you know which to keep. after that, if you decide to go AP mode and want to check out M7, sell both to get and M7; the other way around to get a MP.
it is like ordering pizza, try as many toppings you like, eventually you will settle for one topping..
my 2 cents,
cheers,
peter_n
Veteran
What Mervyn said above. You have to try for yourself. I use M7s, bought before the release of the ZI. If the ZI had been around when I was buying I would certainly have tried it. OTOH there's a ZI sale pending in the classifieds over on PN and the seller quotes his ZI repairman thus: "it's all business on the outside and mass-production on the inside". Interesting comment.
x-ray
Veteran
I've shot Leica M's for nearly 40 years professionally. I still have a M2 and 3 plus M6 and 3 MP's. I also purchased a new ZI last year when I was looking for a full auto M. I can honestly say I love the ZI and use it equally with the M's. I leave the ZI on auto and have never mossed an exposure. I use Zeiss, Leica nd CV lenses but favor the Zeiss in general. The M2 and 3 are better built than the M6 but not certain about the MP. The MP seems to be up there in quality but the M4-2, M4-P and M6's are not quite up to traditional Leica quality but they are still very fine cameras. Both the ZI and MP have stong points but I really feel the ZI has the advantage in VF/ RF, weight, auto exposure and film loading. The RF/VF is the best I've ever seen and easier to track and follow focus and more easily used under extremely dim light. Accuracy is superb. The metal shutter has a 1/125 sync speed if that makes any difference. Mechanically I feel the ZI will most likely out last all of us.
There's so much myth around Leica and Leica glass. It's more myth than truth in my view.
The downside of the ZI is in manual mode. I have a problem seeing the display on the left but have really never taken it off auto. This is why I bought it.
The problem buying older M's like the 2 and 4 is the age. They are excellent but have no meter and many are now in need of repair or CLA at the minimum. Many M3's have fading RF's as my camera does. The fix can be quite expensive.
My vote is the ZI and if starting today with the knowledge I have and the choices I very likely would use only Zeiss.
There's so much myth around Leica and Leica glass. It's more myth than truth in my view.
The downside of the ZI is in manual mode. I have a problem seeing the display on the left but have really never taken it off auto. This is why I bought it.
The problem buying older M's like the 2 and 4 is the age. They are excellent but have no meter and many are now in need of repair or CLA at the minimum. Many M3's have fading RF's as my camera does. The fix can be quite expensive.
My vote is the ZI and if starting today with the knowledge I have and the choices I very likely would use only Zeiss.
waileong
Well-known
I also have both the ZI and two M's: M3 and M4.
In my view, ZI is a tool, while Leica is a luxury. The ZI feels cheap after you're used to the weight and chrome of a Leica. The shutter sound is so much louder, and the aluminium used is nothing compared to the old style finish of a Leica.
However, the ZI gets the job done, so if you need a rangefinder and don't want to spend too much, get a ZI. It is definitely better than a Bessa and technically superior than a Leica (eg 1/125 flash sync). But Leica's position of quality is not threatened by ZI.
It must be stated this is not a criticism of ZI. Products are made to a price point, and one expects that a Hyundai will have a different finish and feel from a Bentley. A ZI is like a Toyota or even a BMW, but a Leica is like a Bentley or Rolls. They all get you from point A to point B, but you feel different in them.
In my view, ZI is a tool, while Leica is a luxury. The ZI feels cheap after you're used to the weight and chrome of a Leica. The shutter sound is so much louder, and the aluminium used is nothing compared to the old style finish of a Leica.
However, the ZI gets the job done, so if you need a rangefinder and don't want to spend too much, get a ZI. It is definitely better than a Bessa and technically superior than a Leica (eg 1/125 flash sync). But Leica's position of quality is not threatened by ZI.
It must be stated this is not a criticism of ZI. Products are made to a price point, and one expects that a Hyundai will have a different finish and feel from a Bentley. A ZI is like a Toyota or even a BMW, but a Leica is like a Bentley or Rolls. They all get you from point A to point B, but you feel different in them.
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back alley
IMAGES
invariably, a new zi gets compared to a used leica, usually a much older model.
compared head to head with a contemporary m7 i doubt that much difference exists.
compared head to head with a contemporary m7 i doubt that much difference exists.
ljsegil
Well-known
Happy with the Zeiss Ikon
Happy with the Zeiss Ikon
I owned an M7 and then bought a ZI. I sold the M7 after several months of using both cameras. The single most important factor for me was the superiority of the viewfinder/rangefinder on the ZI. My focusing accuracy was better on the ZI with most any lens. I wear glasses and the viewfinder on the ZI made an enormous difference to my shooting comfort and framing ability. I actually prefer the feel of the ZI, particularly the lighter weight which I know troubles some other people. I have two ZM lenses, the 21mm Biogon and the 50mm Sonnar and both have given me outstanding shots. Of course, the Leica glass which I still have is excellent, but I do think the ZM lenses can hold their own against the Leicas. I have had no troubles whatsoever with the ZI or the lenses, thus cannot comment on the Zeiss service.
Good luck with your decision. I have been very happy with my choice.
LJS
Happy with the Zeiss Ikon
I owned an M7 and then bought a ZI. I sold the M7 after several months of using both cameras. The single most important factor for me was the superiority of the viewfinder/rangefinder on the ZI. My focusing accuracy was better on the ZI with most any lens. I wear glasses and the viewfinder on the ZI made an enormous difference to my shooting comfort and framing ability. I actually prefer the feel of the ZI, particularly the lighter weight which I know troubles some other people. I have two ZM lenses, the 21mm Biogon and the 50mm Sonnar and both have given me outstanding shots. Of course, the Leica glass which I still have is excellent, but I do think the ZM lenses can hold their own against the Leicas. I have had no troubles whatsoever with the ZI or the lenses, thus cannot comment on the Zeiss service.
Good luck with your decision. I have been very happy with my choice.
LJS
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
When I upgrade it will be to Zeiss Ikon with Zeiss lenses, not to a Leica system.
It's partly the extra investment in going for Leica, and partly I prefer the film-loading system of the Zeiss.
There are no Zeiss stockists anywhere remotely near me so I'll buy on the internet, and send the camera by mail if (when) it needs a service or repair.
It's partly the extra investment in going for Leica, and partly I prefer the film-loading system of the Zeiss.
There are no Zeiss stockists anywhere remotely near me so I'll buy on the internet, and send the camera by mail if (when) it needs a service or repair.
thomasw_
Well-known
well for 3500$ you can buy one hell of a body! but since you say you were looking at m7s and m6s, you have loads of choices, especially if you do go all manual as you claim. were you thinking of getting one of those titanium m6s or 7s; or perhaps a m6j? with those, yes, you can drop 3500$ quickly. but are those items even of interest?
since you do shoot manually, why would you want a m7 or a ZI functionality? If I had the money you are looking to spend, and I shot manually, I'd obtain the MP. my only question would be which magnification to get in the VF....
hope this helps you think it out.
thomas
since you do shoot manually, why would you want a m7 or a ZI functionality? If I had the money you are looking to spend, and I shot manually, I'd obtain the MP. my only question would be which magnification to get in the VF....
hope this helps you think it out.
thomas
Avotius
Some guy
the zeiss ikon is a hell of a lot cheaper then 1400 dollars, look around some more...
I had a bad expernece with 3 zeiss ikon bodies then bought a bessa, but still at this point I love my bessa so much as a great tool that I would consider a zeiss ikon body if I were in the market again, thankfully im not.
I had a bad expernece with 3 zeiss ikon bodies then bought a bessa, but still at this point I love my bessa so much as a great tool that I would consider a zeiss ikon body if I were in the market again, thankfully im not.
gavinlg
Veteran
I've just sold an m6. I think I like the ikon better. Had a play with one in new york - was much lighter but more modern feeling. The finder is amazing. the camera also looks amazing - it has an industrial timeless quality look.
Also zeiss are killing it with customer service - great company.
Also zeiss are killing it with customer service - great company.
Olsen
Well-known
Hi icelander! Greetings from Norway! My father flew Northrops out of Akureyri during the WWII, by the way.
I have both a ZI and a Leica MP. I agree with all the opinions here that you can 'just as well buy a Zeiss Ikon' and that this will be very price effective. Although, the MP has this 'quality feel' about it that everyone who are lucky enough to hold it say; 'wow'!
But....
With both cameras you will be dependant on service. Preferably from some local service facility. Like Norway, Iceland is a different story compared to all those living at (or was it on..) Manhattan, 20 minutes walk from Times Square. I would ask your local shop if they feel competent to adjust the viewfinder of a ZI before bringing one to Iceland, the Leicas they would know, I am sure. Or could it be that any of the 20 or M6's or M7's so Leicas 'on' Iceland are for sale 2.hand?
I have both a ZI and a Leica MP. I agree with all the opinions here that you can 'just as well buy a Zeiss Ikon' and that this will be very price effective. Although, the MP has this 'quality feel' about it that everyone who are lucky enough to hold it say; 'wow'!
But....
With both cameras you will be dependant on service. Preferably from some local service facility. Like Norway, Iceland is a different story compared to all those living at (or was it on..) Manhattan, 20 minutes walk from Times Square. I would ask your local shop if they feel competent to adjust the viewfinder of a ZI before bringing one to Iceland, the Leicas they would know, I am sure. Or could it be that any of the 20 or M6's or M7's so Leicas 'on' Iceland are for sale 2.hand?
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totifoto
Well-known
Thanx everyone for you´re answers
X-ray: It was really nice to hear from a guy with a 40 eyars of experince. I looked through you´re photos and you´re B&W are amazing and truly inspireing.
I´ll think I just go for the ZI to start with.
Any tips on where it´s best to buy them?
I usually shop from B&H or KEH but KEH dont have them
X-ray: It was really nice to hear from a guy with a 40 eyars of experince. I looked through you´re photos and you´re B&W are amazing and truly inspireing.
I´ll think I just go for the ZI to start with.
Any tips on where it´s best to buy them?
I usually shop from B&H or KEH but KEH dont have them
sirius
Well-known
Congrats on your decision. I hope that you post your impressions and photos on RFF.
Buy from Popflash. Tony is amazing to deal with. They are a great company. KEH is better for used gear and B&H is also good but there are seldom any deals there.
Buy from Popflash. Tony is amazing to deal with. They are a great company. KEH is better for used gear and B&H is also good but there are seldom any deals there.