Zeiss Nettar with Color Skopar fact or fiction
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ZeissFan
Veteran
In all likelihood, someone replaced the Novar with the Color-Skopar.
Although Zeiss held an interest in Voigtlander, the folding cameras didn't share lenses, as far as I know.
By the time Voigtlander was folded into Zeiss Ikon, folding cameras were no longer being made.
Also, the Nettar was the budget camera, fitted with a Novar. I don't have my books handy, but I am not sure if a Tessar was an option. And the Color-Skopar was never an option.
However, it is relatively simple to swap out the lens for a Tessar type. You just would need to recollimate the lens.
But who knows. I'll leave open the possiblity that an enterprising worker for Zeiss Ikon or Voigtlander made (or asked someone to make) this camera.
Check the inner retaining nut for tool marks. Not that this would tell you anything definitively.
Although Zeiss held an interest in Voigtlander, the folding cameras didn't share lenses, as far as I know.
By the time Voigtlander was folded into Zeiss Ikon, folding cameras were no longer being made.
Also, the Nettar was the budget camera, fitted with a Novar. I don't have my books handy, but I am not sure if a Tessar was an option. And the Color-Skopar was never an option.
However, it is relatively simple to swap out the lens for a Tessar type. You just would need to recollimate the lens.
But who knows. I'll leave open the possiblity that an enterprising worker for Zeiss Ikon or Voigtlander made (or asked someone to make) this camera.
Check the inner retaining nut for tool marks. Not that this would tell you anything definitively.
hanskerensky
Well-known
Guess the lens used did once belong to a Voigtlander Perkeo II.
Scrambler
Well-known
I'd agree with the suggestion of a lens swap. Dead easy to do: I have done it one one of my folding cameras to get a better and faster lens. Also dead easy to return to original later. Assuming you have the original.
Platinum RF
Well-known
My Perkeo II has a 80mm f3.5 lens instead of 75mm f3.5
hanskerensky
Well-known
Yes, you are right about that !
All Perkeo II's i saw until now have the 80mm lens. Must have a look if there ever was another type produced with a 75mm lens. Seller certo6 lists one with a 75mm lens stated in the description but if you have a look at the images in that ad you also see a 80mm lens.
For me the 75mm stated on the lens ring is more rare then a Color-Skopar sitting in front of a Nettar.
At the moment i'm abroad so not able to consult the excellent book of Mr.Prochnow about the Voigtlander folders. Maybe somebody else can take a look ?
hanskerensky
Well-known
Investigating the Bessa 66 might also be worthwhile. They could also be had with Color_Skopar 7,5cm lenses.
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
That is not really strong evidence, as seller certo6 has some reputation for creating Frankencameras. But my Bessa 66 (Perkeo II precursor) has a doubtlessly original 7.5cm Heliar.
hanskerensky
Well-known
Yes, i allready mentioned in my previous post that when you look at the images of his advertisment you clearly see 80mm on the lens ring 🙂
I allready saw an evilbay listing of a Bessa 66 clearly showing a Color-Skopar 3,5 7,5cm on the lens ring so would not be surprised if there are also were 75 is mentioned on the ring. Still searching.....
hanskerensky
Well-known
Guess i found one though it was not easy.
Have a look at this site :
http://www.schoebels-voigtlaender-archiv.de/Bild0104.html
Look at the models with foldable viewfinder (Rahmensucher). There you'll see a Typ 6 described. The image above that text shows a Bessa 66 with a Color Skopar. If you look carefully (had to zoom the page to 200%) you see that the lens ring also shows a 75 like the first image in this topic.
Hope somebody finds a better image because i have seen more Bessa images this evening then is healthy for me ;-)
Have a look at this site :
http://www.schoebels-voigtlaender-archiv.de/Bild0104.html
Look at the models with foldable viewfinder (Rahmensucher). There you'll see a Typ 6 described. The image above that text shows a Bessa 66 with a Color Skopar. If you look carefully (had to zoom the page to 200%) you see that the lens ring also shows a 75 like the first image in this topic.
Hope somebody finds a better image because i have seen more Bessa images this evening then is healthy for me ;-)
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
No need to enlarge - the page explicitly states "[FONT=VERDANA,ARIAL,HELVETICA](f = 7,5 cm bei allen Kameras auf dieser Seite)", i.e. "f = 7.5 cm on all cameras on this page".
[/FONT]
hanskerensky
Well-known
You should as the "cm" part is nowhere to be seen on that image
rwintle
Scientist by day
I thought I read somewhere that Zeiss Ikon put together some "unusual" combinations in the rebuilding years after WWII? My 515/16, for example, has the Novar-Anastigmat f/4.5 like in culturesponge's photo above, but with a Pronto shutter - a combination that is as far as I know "wrong" for the 515/16:
Zeiss Ikon Nettar 515/16 by Richard Wintle, on Flickr
Sorry, this doesn't really help with the OP's question though.
Zeiss Ikon Nettar 515/16 by Richard Wintle, on Flickr
Sorry, this doesn't really help with the OP's question though.
Platinum RF
Well-known
Per Voigtlander expert, this is an upgraded one.
Platinum RF
Well-known
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
i can see one in your photo but doubt Zeiss installed that lens
Zeiss Ikon Nettar 518/16 with Novar Anastigmat f4.5 75mm
our Nettar has a Zeiss Novar #2
#9 Skopar lens upgrade looks to be a worthwhile modification
best
alex
Fascinating to see the differences in design among the triplets, like the Novar.
hanskerensky
Well-known
The Mess-Ikonta normally has a 75mm lens.
Did you find by any chance also a photo of same camera but seen from the side so we can see how the 5mm focus difference was corrected ?
btw For the Zeiss folder with Color Skopar lens collectors, here is another one to show :
http://www.flickr.com/groups/574362@N21/discuss/72157629761766601/
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
Which makes it even less plausible as a genuine part - the Meß Ikonta originally has 75mm lenses (usually Novar, rarely Tessar), so that that is a mismatch.
It can't be original as in originally installed in any case, Zeiss Ikon had already quit selling folders before the unfriendly takeover of Voigtländer, and preceding that both company were on far from cooperative terms. But it could have been plausible that the ZI repair service officially used Voigtländer spare lenses for replacements after the merger. However, they would hardly have used a lens with 5mm difference in focal length - this is clearly a sign of either a botched amateur job, or a third party repair with whatever remaining inventory was left long after ZI and Voigtländer had ceased service.
citizen99
Well-known
It appears from this picture in Sylvain Halgand's collection that the Ikonta 524/16 has front-cell focussing (rather than e.g. a whole-lens helicoid), as expected for a camera with uncoupled rangefinder of that era.
Now, as someone who has made up 'Frankencameras' from parts, just for my own experimentation and/or use 😉, I suspect that an upgrade (from 75mm) to an 80mm Color Skopar could have been within the range of front cell spacing adjustment. I have grafted a 100m Kodak Anastar on to the lens-less carcasses of cameras designed for 105mm; admittedly a slighty smaller difference relative to the focal length, and in the opposite direction, but the principle is the same. The cell spacings would be different to the range for which the lens designers had optimised their compromises, but I found the results to be quite acceptable.
Another way of thinking about it : the range of focussing distance of a whole-lens focussing 75mm or 80mm 6x6 camera is significantly greater than the travel of the front cell of a cell-focussed lens version.
Now, as someone who has made up 'Frankencameras' from parts, just for my own experimentation and/or use 😉, I suspect that an upgrade (from 75mm) to an 80mm Color Skopar could have been within the range of front cell spacing adjustment. I have grafted a 100m Kodak Anastar on to the lens-less carcasses of cameras designed for 105mm; admittedly a slighty smaller difference relative to the focal length, and in the opposite direction, but the principle is the same. The cell spacings would be different to the range for which the lens designers had optimised their compromises, but I found the results to be quite acceptable.
Another way of thinking about it : the range of focussing distance of a whole-lens focussing 75mm or 80mm 6x6 camera is significantly greater than the travel of the front cell of a cell-focussed lens version.
