Zeiss Sonnar LTM
- Thread starter scautez
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mcfingon
Western Australia
It doesn't look right to me. I am guessing someone has put the lens block from possibly a 1950's Sonnar Contax lens into a different mount. The mount itself doesn't look like Zeiss manufacture. The lettering on the front of the lens looks authentic, but the serial number seems to have one digit too many. I've got a mid-50's Sonnar f2 with serial 889288.
mcfingon
Western Australia
I would check with BrequetCamera that it focusses accurately on a Leica rangefinder body. It looks like it is real late-50's Zeiss glass in a Leica lens body (maybe pre-war Summarit?) but it would have to be done well if the RF focussing is going to work.
anindyo
Member
To me, it looks like a contax-mount sonnar (late version) adapted in ltm using jupiter barrel. Afaik, only the Jena version that was produced in ltm.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
No original barrel. That is a Jupiter barrel, Russian made.
Also, the original wartime or pre-wartime Sonnar has two small 'ears' of that are knurled and the rest of the aperture ring is smooth.
Looks like you have a later (possibly Jupiter) lens block and a certainly Jupiter barrel. The Carl Zeiss name ring might be the only thing that came from Jena.
Three characteristics of a genuine Sonnar:
Lenses that lack any of the above are at least tampered with (CZJ Sonnar and Jupiter are close to identical in design and can easily be swapped out) and possibly completely Russian with a CZJ name ring. Which is what yours appears to be.
The lens barrel certainly is no Summarit (won't even fit) and the amount of digits on the serial number is correct. Wartime Sonnar lenses would have serials ranging from 270xxxx (CZJ production) up to 285xxxx (Russian supervision of CZJ factories).
Lenses marked '3K' (for Zorki Krasnogorsk) and '1947' or '1948' should be met with utmost suspicion, the 1948 lenses could be genuine but the 1947 lenses are very likely to be re-engraved Jupiters.
As to whether it's a good lens: it sure can be if it isn't already. The Sonnar design isn't very complicated but many lenses were slapped together in the later days of the USSR since the amount produced was more important that the quality of the product.
Early lenses are often manufactured with great care and are more often good lenses, if they aren't used up that is.
You should at least shoot it for a while and see if you like it. I bet it will surprise you, sometimes in a positive way, sometimes not so much. I have a simple Jupiter-8 from the 1990s (gloss black paint barrel, basically still the same lens) and I love it.
Also, the original wartime or pre-wartime Sonnar has two small 'ears' of that are knurled and the rest of the aperture ring is smooth.
Looks like you have a later (possibly Jupiter) lens block and a certainly Jupiter barrel. The Carl Zeiss name ring might be the only thing that came from Jena.
Three characteristics of a genuine Sonnar:
- It would have two screws of different size set close to each other in the knurled focus ring
- It would be marked 'm' for meter instead of 'M'
- It would have coatings that are mostly honey and have a sheen of purple.
Lenses that lack any of the above are at least tampered with (CZJ Sonnar and Jupiter are close to identical in design and can easily be swapped out) and possibly completely Russian with a CZJ name ring. Which is what yours appears to be.
The lens barrel certainly is no Summarit (won't even fit) and the amount of digits on the serial number is correct. Wartime Sonnar lenses would have serials ranging from 270xxxx (CZJ production) up to 285xxxx (Russian supervision of CZJ factories).
Lenses marked '3K' (for Zorki Krasnogorsk) and '1947' or '1948' should be met with utmost suspicion, the 1948 lenses could be genuine but the 1947 lenses are very likely to be re-engraved Jupiters.
As to whether it's a good lens: it sure can be if it isn't already. The Sonnar design isn't very complicated but many lenses were slapped together in the later days of the USSR since the amount produced was more important that the quality of the product.
Early lenses are often manufactured with great care and are more often good lenses, if they aren't used up that is.
You should at least shoot it for a while and see if you like it. I bet it will surprise you, sometimes in a positive way, sometimes not so much. I have a simple Jupiter-8 from the 1990s (gloss black paint barrel, basically still the same lens) and I love it.
Highway 61
Revisited
There is no need for a long tirade.
It's a forgery made of a late postwar Oberkochen Sonnar 50/1.5 originally in Contax RF mount and a nice LTM barrel, which is not of FSU origin.
The barrel comes from a Canon RF LTM 50/1.5 or 50/1.8 lens.
It's a forgery made of a late postwar Oberkochen Sonnar 50/1.5 originally in Contax RF mount and a nice LTM barrel, which is not of FSU origin.
The barrel comes from a Canon RF LTM 50/1.5 or 50/1.8 lens.
scautez
Established
Thanks everyone for your input. I haven't bought the lens, but saw it for sale, and was curious to know. Thanks again.
I was thinking the same thing! Because of the three screws on the underside of the mount.
mcfingon
Western Australia
The lens barrel comes from Germany. That's why I thought it may be a Leica mount, with distance in feet, so maybe an export model.
mcfingon
Western Australia
Here's a pre-war Summarit for comparison. Looks very much like the mount to me.
mcfingon
Western Australia
Someone's done a very neat job of fitting the Sonnar top part onto the Summarit or whatever it is lower mount. Where the two join is nearly seamless. I think it's a pity that it is not being openly talked about by the eBay seller.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Here's a pre-war Summarit for comparison. Looks very much like the mount to me.
Disagree.
Upon closer inspection I don't know where the mount came from, it's not Russian, but it's not Summarit either.
Summarit has two knurled rings, then a wide area with a tapered third ring functioning as the aperture ring. Then the focus block protrudes.
The mount shown in the OP has one knurled ring and the second one is tapered already, and the third is the aperture ring which is clearly on the focus block. There is no wide area between the tapered ring nr.2 and the aperture ring.
It looks like a Canon mount indeed but the engraving 'Germany' is very convincingly in the correct font imho.
Puzzling.
It's a pretty looking lens anyway.
Hope this wasn't too long a tirade, Highway?😛
ForestCap
Well-known
It looks like a Canon barrel. Jupiter-3 barrel does not have tab.
enasniearth
Well-known
I’m with the 50mm f1.5. Canon barrel with postwar zeiss optic module
The canon lens is a sonar type ,so less work — don’t have to extensively modify barrel length and change from ape rather adjustment on barrel to ape rather adjustment on lens ring ,
Just engrave Germany —
Really still much work went down not the conversion
The canon lens is a sonar type ,so less work — don’t have to extensively modify barrel length and change from ape rather adjustment on barrel to ape rather adjustment on lens ring ,
Just engrave Germany —
Really still much work went down not the conversion
Peter Jennings
Well-known
Just held up my Canon 1.8 and 1.5 (non-Serenar) lenses to compare. They are not like this lens. Canon has no side screws and the polished chrome shines like a mirror.
Peter Jennings
Well-known
Knurls don't match Canon, either. And the Canon f-stops go in the opposite direction.
mcfingon
Western Australia
Has anyone got a picture of the Canon barrel (excuse the pun🙂 being talked about?
Peter Jennings
Well-known
The best I have, but a google search will give all you need.
[/url]Untitled by Peter Jennings, on Flickr[/IMG]
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
This website has info on how to spot fake Sonnars: http://www.klassik-cameras.de/Zeiss_Fakes.html
And it also has this image at the bottom of said page:
This is a 1.5 lens though and the barrel seems to match the image in the OP. But, the engravings differ, see the 3.5 mark where the 3 isn't identical. Might be variations in Canon engravings though.
Anybody getting this lens? It looks very nice. Or is Breguet overpricing it?
johank
Established
Zeiss could put on AR in 1935. When Göring was made CP of all Optic production he ordered CZ to make LTM and Robot Mounts. As well as distribute lenes too. CZ was also ordered to provide Leitz with Optical Benches witch improved Ls Lensens a lot.
It might very well be a prewar Sonnar in a genuine LTM mount.
It might very well be a prewar Sonnar in a genuine LTM mount.
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