zeiss - strike 2 for quality control

[ch1]

I heard beer kills slugs hic.

Yes, and they die happy. :angel:

Or, you can pour salt on them if you want to watch them shrivel up in agony.

 

[dogless]

I remember reading more then a few owners of the new summilux asph 50 mm lenses having to return them for repair/replacement due to focusing problems, apparently a QC issue. And remember 100% of the entire first bunch of MP’s had the viewfinder dust problem. The engineering brain trust at Leica determined the MP design to be mechanically perfect? Are the Zeiss issues with the ZI and lenses a design issue or a QC issue?

 

[beethamd]

Geoffrey Crawley in AP tested the 50, 21 & 35. Liked them, but noted distortion and high vignetting. Much of the article covers the historical perspective of the new Ikon and lenses, which makes for a very interesting read.

He said too, that Tokina made lenses for Contax? I took it to mean for Contax, not just in the Contax mount (C/Y). Is that true?

 

[Andy K]

Maybe everyone should take a deep breath and get back to the more basic questions of what brand of camera bag to buy, what type of camera case to buy, and which uber-expensive lens will look best on the end of their camera.

Mere fluff which pales into insignificance when you consider the most important aspect of rf photography: which camera strap to use.

Maybe perspective is required, how many threads are there on RFF about new Zeiss Ikon defects... and how many threads are there about Epson RD1 defects? I have read an absolute catalogue of failures, returned bodies, breakdowns etc. etc. experienced by RD-1 owners on this forum, this is the first and only time I have read of anything going amiss with the Zeiss Ikon. I know which one I would buy.

 

[Fred]

Oddly enough, you don't often here about all the ZI, CV, Leica kit that has worked well out of the box and the owners are more than happy about it.

Stuff goes wrong, and thats a fact. You would expect that the more you pay that the 'chance' of failure is reduced but could still happen, but if you sold your neighbours house and bought a special edition Hermes Leica and the VF was dusty you'd be p*ssed off more than if you spent a few months beer budget on a Bessa and the virtical alignment was a little bit out.

Getting 100% reliability on a mass produced product at any price is is very very hard to achieve.

Sorry to hear that Joe has had more than his fair share of QC issues though.

I guess we'll never stop this CV, ZI or Leica bashing from some quarters. Seems that the only way to stop it is for a company to go under. When was the last time we saw a flood of bleats about Contax kit?

Time to go out and shoot some images... I feel much better now.

 

[Bertram2]

See, didn't I tell you this would happen.

The Zeissians are offended!
The fault now is Cosina's. And Nikons are sh*t - always have been, always will!
What a crock!
Spend your money on a ZI and if it don't work - it's your fault!
B....S!!!

Ah , one of these silly BS broadsides again, I thought you had given up this sort of impolite communication !!??

It's maybe hard for you to understand , but on my forehad is NO brand tattooed ! Get it, finally !!
I am neither a "Zeissian" nor a "Nikonian" nor another sort of weak minded "xxxian" person , I refuse to play in the sandbox with such a kind of Kinderkacke ! And I don't need a stupid brand either to have a place to feel at home or accepted by my friends and neighbours or as a chick magnet or to feel as a member of an exclusive club, the latter both quotes btw from some post i read recently here.

I just take what serves my purposes best and offers me the best worth for money. I can afford that, my social status does not depend on any makes, you see ? THAT is what is tattoed on MY forehead !

So if it should turn out that Zeiss does not get the QM under control I will be the first who sorts out this product as a deformed child of a German - Japanese cooperation.

My concern is the stupidity of talking any products down just to confirm yourself you have chosen the "right" one. This is the way one starts flames, because there are always some other Gagas willing to "bite", no matter how silly the contribution is.

bertram
And thanks for the "BS", it tells me that the manners of the "Nikonians" leave to desire, to say it polite.

 

[Socke]

He said too, that Tokina made lenses for Contax? I took it to mean for Contax, not just in the Contax mount (C/Y). Is that true?

I don't think so. Yashica/Kyocera had sufficient resources to produce enough lenses.
But in todays times one never knows who produces what for whom

Edit:

That's why I rely on QC. When I buy a brand name, I want better QC than what I get from the nonames. But often enough that is not the case

 

[Pherdinand]

alcohol causes severe migraines now.
i'm being punished for enjoying life too much when i was young.
joe

Joe - my mom has migraine alot. She never was a big fan of alcohol.
You should be glad that at least you've "enjoyed life" ; you might have the migraines anyway!

 

[Pherdinand]

Sorry but still, Belgium is the beer country.
Even my proud dutch friends accept it.
Luckily you can get even Hoegaarden in the US!
Even if most of the belgian breweries are bought up by interbrew, they kept them as they were, more or less.
And then there are those like maredsous, chimay, affligem... mmm

 

[Andy K]

Sorry but still, Belgium is the beer country.
Even my proud dutch friends accept it.
Luckily you can get even Hoegaarden in the US!
Even if most of the belgian breweries are bought up by interbrew, they kept them as they were, more or less.
And then there are those like maredsous, chimay, affligem... mmm

Beer in Belgium? Belgium is responsible for the foul tasting, weak, over-priced crime known as Stella Artois.

 

[Pherdinand]

Stella Artois is the Bud of Belgium. Just like Heineken is for the Netherlands.
A stereotype.
A proof that good marketing does not need good quality.

 

[Huck Finn]

The word here was that the ZI was "special". Not "just" a Cosina R-series but a Zeiss QC'd wunder kamera!

When some of us suggested otherwise the Zeissians went for the jugler. This camera was supposed to be "German-quality" etc. As if the Japanese had not yet mastered the skill of camera making and needed German assistance!

Well, truth be told, this thing is not a very good kit! And it carries the Zeiss label - no one elses!

Well, George, you've now entered 7 posts on this thread just to say "I told you so." One would have been sufficient. It seems that you are the one attmpting to go for the jugular. So . . . How are the anger management classes going?

Since I am part of the "Zeiss crowd" that you feel compelled to insult, I will respond.

Let's talk about facts:

1. Joe's comment about the problem with his ZI camera is not new. He reported it a long time ago. He then posted a survey to see how many problems there have been with the body. Grand total = 3! Since that thread died, more members have bought ZI cameras - including Joe's replacement body. No new reports of problems. Still just 3. That's it.

2. Joe reported a new problem with a lens. I haven't seen any other problems reported with ZM lenses. Maybe I missed one somewhere. There have been a lot more ZM lenses sold than ZI cameras.

Where is the Zeiss QC epidemic?

There are now 4 pages of this thread complaining about Zeiss quality control without a shred of evidence that there is a serious problem. Frankly, I haven't seen a single Zeiss problem reported on any of the other rangefinder forums. Just happy customers pursuing their hobby of taking pictures - with pleasure.

George, you're a bright guy. Why the hang up on this issue?

The fact is that the ZI is special. Truth is that this is a very good kit. Yes, the QC is Zeiss. What's special about that is not the German name but the fact that they are inspecting every item that leaves the factory like they used to when you & I got that little gold label on our cameras. No one else does that any more.

I have no idea who claimed " 'German-quality' . . . as if the Japanese had not mastered the skill of camera making and needed German assistance." I shoot with Nikons & drive a Japanese car. I frankly find it offensive to attempt to turn this into some kind of race war.

Nothing is perfect. Anyone who is looking for problems can find them to reinforce their previously held bias.

I'm sorry that Joe had the misfortune to be the recipient of two problems. If I were Joe, I'd be upset too. But for others to take this situation out of the context of all of the other satisfied owners is . . . just absurd.

Huck

 

[back alley]

and while annoyed i would still count myself as a mostly satisfied owner.

if you go over some of my previous posts i have expressed great love for the zm lenses. one problem lens has not altered the fact that the other 2 are still sharp and smooth to operate.

joe

 

[Patman]

All i can say is i still own the M3 and 3 lenses i purchased over 40 years ago. I have never had a problem with any piece of Leitz equipment in all that time and my M still works flawlessly, to me that speaks for itself.

 

[Way]

Joe,

Sorry to hear about your second problem. I do hope it will be resolved quickly!
I am also wondering about my ZI body (the last frame is always a "half" frame). I will
probably call Tony and ask him if that is a problem.

Way

 

[NIKON KIU]

I have a Zeiss lens or two that I swear by...on a medium format Hassy of course...superb built quality,built like a tank and priced accordingly.
The items mentioned here are suppose to be high quality Photo gear and they are priced as such. I just think the quality control is not up to what Ziess represents but then, the prices of new Zeiss stuff is not like the old Zeiss stuff(cheaper).
I have almost had everything Nikon makes at one time or another and I am embarrassed to say that the Cosina made FM10 and the two lenses they make for it,although still in production, is the Worst gear I have seen with the Nikon badging....compared to the FM10 the FG and the series E lenses rule!
Bottom line is "time will tell"...will this new Zeiss gear hold up to 15 years of use? Will it be used by Photojournalists in the next war?
TIME WILL TELL,
Kiu

 

[Socke]

Bottom line is "time will tell"...will this new Zeiss gear hold up to 15 years of use? Will it be used by Photojournalists in the next war?
TIME WILL TELL,
Kiu

I can answer the last one, a definite NO!

 

[raid]

I still have an 18 year old Magnavox VCR that is heavy and made from metal. It still performs 100% as it did when new. I also a newer VCR that is more advanced electronically but its shell is not from metal. It seems to be similar with the newer cameras and lenses. While optically the lenses may be more advanced, the older lenses are built to last. The same goes for some camera makers.

 

[John Robertson]

All i can say is i still own the M3 and 3 lenses i purchased over 40 years ago. I have never had a problem with any piece of Leitz equipment in all that time and my M still works flawlessly, to me that speaks for itself.

well whoopee for you!

seriously I find this whole argument mind numbingly pointless. Ok some wee lassie forgot to tighten a screw on a lens on a production line, and the whole world ends. I strikes me that the Almighty forgot to tighten a few screws on his production line, but we just have to get along with them!! :angel:

 

[bmattock]

I strikes me that the Almighty forgot to tighten a few screws on his production line, but we just have to get along with them!! :angel:

I think a few might actually be a tiny bit too tight. Use some loosening up. Fortunately, I carry a wrench in my pocket for just such emergencies.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks