Zeiss Super Ikonta 1V Metering

[bherman]

All;

I just picked up a Zeiss Super Ikonta 1V, and thoroughly read the manual. I still can't 100% figure out the metering method/system.

I understand that you need to open the Exposure Meter, point it at your subject, and align the meter pointer with the little circle etc.

I then read the value that is etched on the Adjustment Knob across from the red triangle, and set that value on the side of the lens (Light Value Scale). Once this is done, it states in the manual that the Light Value and Shutter Speed are 'coupled'.

This is where I get lost. If I meter with my handheld meter, I'll get say, 1/125th at F/11. Let's say that the Light Value on the Adjusting Wheel shows 11. When I set the Light Value on the lens to 11, the corresponding F/Stop is F/16. I'm ok so far. The Adjusting Ring with Light Value Scale/Shutter Speed was previouslyset anywhere, (mine happened to be at 1/8 sec.), so I know that 1/8th sec. at F/16 is way off.

You see, the meter gets the F/Stop set via the Light Value, but what sets the Shutter speed? Where does that value come from?

Thanks, Brad

 

[hanskerensky]

On my handheld meter an L.V. (Light Value) of 11 gives with an ISO 100 speed film setting indeed 1/8th sec. at 1:16. So it's not way off but just the right value if you happen to set your lightmeter system for that filmspeed.

I think that maybe there is a confusion between the diaphragma-scale and the LV-scale in your settings.

When you have set a certain Light Value on the shutter the diaphragma and shutterspeed should be coupled. So when you change the shutterspeed the diaphragma should also automaticly change. For example when you have 1/8th sec. at f:16 and change the shutterspeed to 1/16th sec. the diaphragma should automaticly chance to f:11.

 

[bherman]

It still doesn't make sense. The camera does not meter for Shutter Speed, only Light Value (LV). If my Gossen Luna Pro (which is very accurate) shows 1/125th at F/11 @ASA100, the Ikonta having been set at 100ASA and LV=11 or F/16 still does not know whet Shutter Speed to select.

Maybe I'm just not getting it, but it would appear as if the camera does not meter for Shutter Speed, only Light Value. If I have to use my handheld meter to get the Shutter Speed, why even use the Zeiss Ikonta's meter?

Thanks,

Brad

 

[hanskerensky]

I have just read the manual of the IV. On page 11 and 12 it shows how you have to adjust the LV-setting on the shutter by first pulling the grooved lever (nr.11 on page 12) and then turning it to the LV-value given by the meter. Sometimes the shutterspeed/diaphgrama setting doesn't allow to set the wanted LV-setting. In that case you should in uncoupled state (pulled grooved lever) also move the shutterspeed dial (nr.9 in the picture on page 12) till the LV-setting is reached.

When you let go of the grooved lever the shutterspeed/diaphragma should be coupled again.

btw I use many times a handheld meter even if the camera has its own system simply because my lightmeter lets me measure direct light (with a white plastic cone in front of the photocell) which i prefer in many occasions when i shoot sildefilm.

Regards,

Hans

 

[bherman]

Zeiss Super Ikonta 1V Metering Issues

Zeiss Super Ikonta 1V Metering Issues

Thanks Hans for the follow-up and replies. I too, read those pages in the manual, and understood about setting the LV on the F/Stop-Shutter Speed Wheel. I also see how the LV number correlates to the F/Stop Setting.

However, it appears as if the Shutter Speed setting is still a mystery. The Meter Adjustment Wheel/Knob allows you to set the F/Stop, but are you supposed to 'guess' the Shutter Speed?

Consider this scenario: All manual cameras (mostly 35mm) from the 60's and 70's had 'Null' Metering where you preset the Shutter Speed and/or the F/Stop until the Meter 'pointer' is either between the brackets or (as in the case of the Super Ikonta 1V), you're supposed to center the needle in the circle.

In the above-referenced example, the internal light meter oif the camera takes into account-and the meter adjusts with both the Shutter Speed and F/Stops.

On the Super Ikonta 1V, the F/Stop is set via the LV, but the Shutter Speed setting has no effect on the meter. Whether it is coupled or not does not guarantee that the settings are correct as the Super Ikonta only measures the reflected light and allows you to transpose the LV setting onto the F/Stop Adjustment Wheel.

I can use a hand-held meter, but this sort of defeats the purpose of having an internal meter.

I'll keep researching this issue. Perhaps I'm making it too complicated, but I have a very good understanding of lighting and light meters as I've been using manual cameras for almost 40 years.

Thanks

Brad

 

[Beemermark]

When you set the light value (called EV on other systems) the F stop and shutter speed should be locked (or coupled) together.

If the speeds and F stops of you handheld meter do not agree then the camera meter is probably way off.

 

[bherman]

I still do not understand what being 'coupled' has to do with the CORRECT exposure. The Shutter Speed Dial can be anywhere prior to setting the LV on the Aperture Ring.

Brad

 

[ZeissFan]

The LV system allowed the photographer to quickly change shutter speed-aperture combinations by turning just one dial, rather than two.

It wasn't a popular system, although there are some people who still like it. I don't care for the LV system.

By the way, it's a Super Ikonta IV (as in Roman numeral IV -- 4), not 1V (as in a Canon SLR).

 

[Steve M.]

I have one of these, and it took me a while to figure it out too. Just use the markings on the shutter (on the side). And give up on the coupling feature. I have mine over at Focal Point getting it's rear element re cemented and the shutter serviced, and I forgot to ask them to remove the infernal coupling arm. Will do it myself when it gets back. The blasted thing is a real nuisance. It is useless, because when you set it to your desired f stop and shutter speed combination, just a few clicks either way bottoms it out on the end and you have to uncouple it and start all over again.

Other than that it's a perfect camera that takes stunning 6x6 images. Very compact camera too. When you advance the film do it nice and slow or you'll get the negs bunched up together w/ no spacing between them. If that still doesn't work, wrap some tape around the take up spool to give it a larger diameter and you'll be set.

 

[hanskerensky]

Brad,

You have to check if the coupling system still works on your shutter. When you i.e. change the shutterspeed 1 stop also the diaphragma has to change automaticly 1 stop.

When the coupling system doesn't work anymore i can imagine that you will have problems understanding the function of the LV-setting system.

 

[FallisPhoto]

Look, I may be wrong, but what you are describing sounds to me like a joined aperture and shutter speed setting. If so, all that means is that the exposure controls (shutter speed and f/stop) are mechanically linked. The camera doesn't set anything -- neither shutter speed nor f/stop -- you do. However, once set, the two adjustments are locked together -- "coupled." If you adjust one, the other moves too, so you will have an equivalent exposure to whatever you set it for in the first place.

In other words, in a camera with linked or "coupled" aperture and shutter speed rings, if you have your camera set for f/8 and 1/125 second, and you adjust the f/stop to f/11, then the shutter speed will also change, to 1/60 second. This is an equivalent exposure. The same amount of light is entering the camera, so you still have the same exposure, but you'll have more depth of field and maybe more motion blur, if your subject is moving.

 

[Beemermark]

Hasselblad used the same system on the 500 series lenses. Many light meters also showed the LV / EV number so you didn't have to worry (or work out in your head) F stops and Apertures. Many people don't like it, I find it handy.

 

[literiter]

Hasselblad used the same system on the 500 series lenses. Many light meters also showed the LV / EV number so you didn't have to worry (or work out in your head) F stops and Apertures. Many people don't like it, I find it handy.

I find EV rather handy. For the cameras I have, It is a nice way to transfer speed and aperture to a lens with one number instead of two. And to remember!
My Cameras with EV:
-Hasselblad PME-5 which meters in EV only. All my Hassy lenses have EV on the dial.
-Super Ikonta IV, the meter readout gives EV.
-Rolleiflex Automat
-Kodak Retina IIc (!) a 35mm camera.

I think just about any decent meter will give EV on it's dial somewhere. I don't think I know of a meter that doesn't have EV somewhere.

 

[bherman]

Zeiss Super Ikonta 1V Metering Issues

Zeiss Super Ikonta 1V Metering Issues

Look, I may be wrong, but what you are describing sounds to me like a joined aperture and shutter speed setting. If so, all that means is that the exposure controls (shutter speed and f/stop) are mechanically linked. The camera doesn't set anything -- neither shutter speed nor f/stop -- you do. However, once set, the two adjustments are locked together -- "coupled." If you adjust one, the other moves too, so you will have an equivalent exposure to whatever you set it for in the first place.

In other words, in a camera with linked or "coupled" aperture and shutter speed rings, if you have your camera set for f/8 and 1/125 second, and you adjust the f/stop to f/11, then the shutter speed will also change, to 1/60 second. This is an equivalent exposure. The same amount of light is entering the camera, so you still have the same exposure, but you'll have more depth of field and maybe more motion blur, if your subject is moving.

FallisPhoto;

I get what you're saying, I really do. I have always equated proper exposure as a combination of the correct F/Stop and Shutter Speed. I understand that the Super Ikonta 's meter provides only the LV setting, but that's only 1/2 of the equation. The fact that the F/Stop/LV ring is coupled to the Shutter means nothing, since it doesn't tell you what the correct Shutter Speed is.

I would imagine that I could 'guess' an appropriate Shutter Speed, or use a handheld meter etc.

I just ordered a Voigtlander VC Meter II for those times that I don't want to bring my Gossen Luna Pro with me.

I totally understand what everyone is saying, but if my Gossen reads 1/60th at 5.6, and the LV reading on the meter reads F/5.6, the F/Stop may be 'coupled' at the 1/500th setting. sure I can change it, but in the absence of an additional meter, I could easily be 4-5 Stops off or more.

I don't know whay they would even bother putting something like this in. All it does is get you in the ballpark.

Brad

 

[Roger Hicks]

A given LV corresponds to a set of shutter/aperture readings, e.g. 1/8 @ 11, 1/15 @ 8, 1/30 @ 5,6, 1/60 @4.

Set the LV on the lens LV scale (there should be an arrow and a pull-twist-drop/lock ring) and you should be able to choose any of these combinations by twisting either the aperture ring or the shutter speed dial. If you can't, there's something wrong with the camera.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Beemermark]

FallisPhoto;

I understand that the Super Ikonta 's meter provides only the LV setting, but that's only 1/2 of the equation. The fact that the F/Stop/LV ring is coupled to the Shutter means nothing, since it doesn't tell you what the correct Shutter Speed is.

The LV is not 1/2 of the equation. It is all of the equation. You do not set the F-stop and LV, you set the LV value only. You need to find someone, a camera store, an older user, someone locally to show you how it works.

 

[FallisPhoto]

" I understand that the Super Ikonta 's meter provides only the LV setting, but that's only 1/2 of the equation."

No it isn't. It should be giving you a set of equivalent exposures. If it is giving you "only half the equation," something is badly wrong; if it isn't you, then I'd have to say your camera is either broken or (more likely, because lots of people didn't like the light value system) it has been disabled.

 

[bherman]

The LV setting when set, th little red pointer/index does indeed point to an F/Stop, which is coupled to the Shutter speeds. The combination just doesn't match up with my handheld meter.

It's probably me and how I'm interpreting the settings.

Brad

 

[hanskerensky]

Hi Brad,

Could you place the LV-setting on the shutter to 14 and tell us which shutterspeed and which diaphragmanumber combination you get ?

btw My handheld lightmeter also has an E.V.-scale but the value this scale gives is not linked to the filmsensivity it just gives the plain strength of the measured light. This meter also has a L.V.-scale (called Light) which outcome is derived from the E.V. and the set ASA Filmspeed.

For a larger photo look here :
http://www.flickr.com/photos/29504544@N08/4254007853/in/set-72157623043873011/

 

[bherman]

Hans;

I get 1/125th and F/11. If I turn the ring to the left, since the two rings are coupled, I get 1/250th @ F/8 and 1/500 @ F5.6. If I go to the right, I get 1/60th @ F/16 and 1/30th @ F/22

Brad