Zeiss ZM lens wobble issues

[Bob Michaels]

.................. Who have folks used other than Zeiss USA for repairs? ...................

My local pro camera repair guy has serviced lubrication / binding / wobble problems on 2 of my ZM lenses. He says it is nothing special that any competent camera repair tech should be able to do.

Ask the local pro shooters around you where they get their cameras serviced. This is not rocket science stuff and there are many good camera repair people out there. Many of them are reclusive and just want to deal with a small group of local pros. My friend does well in an unmarked building, unlisted phone, no advertising, and only servicing equipment that is personally delivered and picked up.

 

[Fragomeni]

Just wanted to chime in real quick since this thread was helpful in my research leading up to purchasing my Zeiss 35mm f2.8 C Biogon ZM. All of my other lenses are Leica (used on an M4) and I've become used to the quality and performance of those lenses. I've been a fan of Zeiss (and shooter on other formats) for a long while and this became the first time I was interested in a Zeiss lens for my Leica. I picked up a near mint used example (mine is black) of the lens last week. Absolutely no sign of wobble and a very solid feeling lens (although not quite like my Leica lenses). My example feels very well made. Focus through is beautiful and actually much better then I expected and the click stops are snappier then most Leica lenses I've used. Very happy with the lens!

 

[Archiver]

Update on my ZM lenses:

21mm f2.8. Bought secondhand from Hong Kong in 2010. No wobbles, perfectly smooth and silent focus ring, lots of use.

25mm f2.8. Bought secondhand in Melbourne in 2010. Slight wobbling, slight focus ring slippage.

28mm f2.8. Bought new in Hong Kong in 2008. Focus ring squeaks and makes a sliding noise, front barrel wobbles. The worst of the lot.

50mm f1.5. Bought secondhand from Hong Kong in 2011. Focus ring moves up and down, makes sliding noises, and front barrel is a bit loose.

The irony is that I also have many Voigtlander lenses, presumably made by the same people in the same factory, and all of them are operationally perfect. 12/5.6 Heliar M-mount, 15/4.5 LTM, 25/4P Skopar, 35/1.2 Nokton, 35/1.4 Nokton, 50/3.5 collapsible Heliar, 75/2.5 Heliar, not to mention the three Voigtlander primes for Micro Four Thirds. It's disappointing that a supposedly higher grade lens seems so susceptible to slippage over time.

Anyone know a place in Melbourne where I can send my lenses for adjustment?

 

[semilog]

Just wanted to chime in real quick since this thread was helpful in my research leading up to purchasing my Zeiss 35mm f2.8 C Biogon ZM. All of my other lenses are Leica (used on an M4) and I've become used to the quality and performance of those lenses. I've been a fan of Zeiss (and shooter on other formats) for a long while and this became the first time I was interested in a Zeiss lens for my Leica. I picked up a near mint used example (mine is black) of the lens last week. Absolutely no sign of wobble and a very solid feeling lens (although not quite like my Leica lenses). My example feels very well made. Focus through is beautiful and actually much better then I expected and the click stops are snappier then most Leica lenses I've used. Very happy with the lens!

I'm on my second specimen of the 35/2.8 it's simply my favorite lens ever. I can't fathom why I sold the first one.

 

[michaelwj]

Update on my ZM lenses:

21mm f2.8. Bought secondhand from Hong Kong in 2010. No wobbles, perfectly smooth and silent focus ring, lots of use.

25mm f2.8. Bought secondhand in Melbourne in 2010. Slight wobbling, slight focus ring slippage.

28mm f2.8. Bought new in Hong Kong in 2008. Focus ring squeaks and makes a sliding noise, front barrel wobbles. The worst of the lot.

50mm f1.5. Bought secondhand from Hong Kong in 2011. Focus ring moves up and down, makes sliding noises, and front barrel is a bit loose.

The irony is that I also have many Voigtlander lenses, presumably made by the same people in the same factory, and all of them are operationally perfect. 12/5.6 Heliar M-mount, 15/4.5 LTM, 25/4P Skopar, 35/1.2 Nokton, 35/1.4 Nokton, 50/3.5 collapsible Heliar, 75/2.5 Heliar, not to mention the three Voigtlander primes for Micro Four Thirds. It's disappointing that a supposedly higher grade lens seems so susceptible to slippage over time.

Anyone know a place in Melbourne where I can send my lenses for adjustment?

Camera Clinic, just off Spring St in Collingwood, they do all the Leica repairs, and will do a good job (at least they have for me) CRKennedy is the distributor. I'm interested in some of these lenses, so I'd like to here how well they do.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Archiver]

Camera Clinic, just off Spring St in Collingwood, they do all the Leica repairs, and will do a good job (at least they have for me) CRKennedy is the distributor. I'm interested in some of these lenses, so I'd like to here how well they do.

Thanks for the tip about Camera Clinic. They repaired my M9 very well in 2010 but it didn't occur to me that they would handle these kinds of lens repairs, too. 😱

The Zeiss lenses are truly excellent in terms of image quality. Every Zeiss lens I have is a gem. But the build quality seems to be a bit hit and miss, which is disappointing for a supposedly higher-tier brand.

I have three Leica lenses which are mechanically perfect, and all my Voigtlander lenses are well used and mechanically perfect, too. If you're looking into Zeiss lenses, be sure to give them a turn or two before you buy, if you can.

 

[Benjamin Marks]

Update: You know, I have taken another look at the poll above and thought ruefully to myself that its main inherent problem is that each poll participant is just reporting on a snapshot in time of their own experience. I was in the "rock-solid" camp when I participated in the poll, BUT . . . . Last summer, my 21/2.8 developed the wobble while I was visiting friend in NYC and it cost about $100 (including shipping) to have it sorted out at Panorama Camera, a repair shop there. So I fall from the rock-solid camp to a 1-in-8 issue. My own theory: you are seeing in the most bald way possible the value-engineering difference between Leica and Zeiss for lenses in this category. I still love the Zeiss look, but I think I have seen first hand the difference in build quality. That's OK -- the lens is good as new. But would change my poll answer a little.

Ben

 

[Dazey]

Wobble details!!

Wobble details!!

I think I am similar to many here in having had a wobble and not knowing the full reason. I searched high and low on the internet and no-one seems to have opened one (or posted about it). I have a Zeiss zm 50mm 1.5 sonnar, this started to wobble. I left it wobbling and it got very bad indeed (3mm play on one corner!). The front element was solid as most people here.
I went to a local repair shop and was quoted an outrageous amount of money to fix it (over £200) so I took on the repair myself. Needless to say, half an hour later it was fixed.
The construction of the front is that the filter ring is held on to a plastic covered ring by 3 bolts. These are fine. The plastic covered ring however seems to manage to unscrew itself.
The hardest bit of the entire job is to get the cover ring out. Zeiss in their vanity chose to not put any dents etc in it to allow it to be gripped. I read on forums that one can use rubber to grip and turn the ring but mine was well stuck. It was however so loose I could grip it with some pliers without touching the glass. As can be seen, I did damage it slightly getting it out but its not something I am overly concerned with (I can appreciate others may differ). Having done this once, I think I could get it out without damage a second time...
My lower ring had two bolts completely undone. I removed them, applied loctite and tightened these. I cleaned the threads to the filter ring as well as the threads on the cover, sparingly applied moly lube to the cover threads and replaced this by hand (I want to be able to get the cover off more easily next time!).
The filter ring is now completely rock solid again 🙂
Some photos in time order, I hope they help others (documenting it has taken as long as fixing it did once I set to it):

 

[Platinum RF]

My Zeiss ZM 25mm f2.8 front unit and focus has play and dry grease feeling send to Zeiss USA I was told they have send toGermany for repair. Zeiss quality......
My Zeiss ZM 21mm 2.8 also has dry grease feeling and bit of play. Famous Zeiss wobble.......
Plan send 21mm to DAG for repair. Any experience with DAG?

 

[Dante_Stella]

That's the thing: there is wobble and wobble.

(a) retaining ring is loose - very easy fix, and I consider this quite normal when the lens travels with you a bit. I had that with a 40 Summicron-C and a 35/2.5 Color Skopar. Usually optics are not affected at all. At least one case of a wobbling ZM 25/2.8 on RFF was fixable like this.

(b) optical cylinder start separating. I had that with a 50/1.5 Nokton, and it can happen also at least to the 35/1.7 Ultron, 35/1.2 Nokton, 50/2 Planar and 35/2 Biogon. To fix, you have to take off the front element to reach internal screws that need tightening and nail polish. Not so pleasant, and possible change of optical collimation.

(c) glued lens elements that start falling apart. That's the worst since not easily fixable yourself. The 35/2 v4 (Bokeh King) is known for this. Why glue was used instead of retaining rings is a miracle to me.

Roland.

Also (d) helicoid grease is dried up, and non-super-precision-machined helicoid key is now loose in its slot.

This is an issue with Japanese lenses, which seem to have bigger key tolerances that Leica lenses. It's can be there on Leica lenses. I've seen it on Summarits. How much you encounter it is also a function of helicoid extension. But in most cases, this is an annoying but mostly harmless lateral movement.

I don't hit (a) very much, and (b) is very common on older SLR lenses (but there, it's just taking off the beauty ring to access those screws).

Dante

 

[varchs]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbWNpXuDEuk
a video demonstrating Dazey's solution on a ZF Distagon...
it seems quite simple..
Thank you Dazey

 

[thompsonks]

I'm too clumsy to take a lens apart, so I just had DAG unwobble, clean, and calibrate my 25mm. It was quite loose.

I asked Zeiss (USA) about it, and they denied a wobble issue, saying they'll take responsibility only for the duration of the warranty.

It's not as dangerous as a faulty ignition switch or air bag, but IMO the principle of responsibility should be the same.

Kirk

 

[Platinum RF]

I'm too clumsy to take a lens apart, so I just had DAG unwobble, clean, and calibrate my 25mm. It was quite loose.

I asked Zeiss (USA) about it, and they denied a wobble issue, saying they'll take responsibility only for the duration of the warranty.

It's not as dangerous as a faulty ignition switch or air bag, but IMO the principle of responsibility should be the same.

Kirk

Hi Kirk
Does DAG fixed the wobble issue or stll the same? Thanks

 

[thompsonks]

It's perfect. No wobble and adjusted perfectly.

Kirk

 

[EdwardKaraa]

The wobble issue has been resolved long ago. Only the first years of production had this problem. Anyhow Zeiss fixed my 85 Sonnar for just 95 euros so the charges are quite reasonable. I wouldn't hesitate to send an out of warranty lens to Oberkochen in the future.

 

[m6h2e]

Do you know since when the issue has been solved? I might buy a used c biogon 35 2.8 and wanted to make sure not to have wobbly lens.

 

[Merumeni]

Do you know since when the issue has been solved? I might buy a used c biogon 35 2.8 and wanted to make sure not to have wobbly lens.

I hate to tell you: the issue still is not solved.
My C-Biogon, C-Sonnar, Biogon 25 got it. All lenses were bought in the last 2 year. Since zeiss offers a 3 year extended warranty this is not much of a hassle.
The most robust seem to be my Planar and Biogon 35 - on the other hand those are the least used ones.

 

[m6h2e]

ouch thats bad news, thanks for the reply!

 

[VertovSvilova]

My own theory: you are seeing in the most bald way possible the value-engineering difference between Leica and Zeiss for lenses in this category. I still love the Zeiss look, but I think I have seen first hand the difference in build quality.

My Zeiss ZM lens developed the 'wobble' relatively quickly. After getting it fixed (and ending up selling it), I was looking for any comments about Zeiss build quality and came across this thread in a photo.net forum: http://photo.net/leica-rangefinders-forum/00WmVq

If you scroll down to about the 7th response, there is a comment by a camera repair person (Gus Lazzari.) He feels that while the construction itself is excellent, it's the choice of materials used by Zeiss that is the problem and why they are less expensive. He mentions "soft screws" and "soft helical tube components" and also "poor grease" (others here are mentioning the grease, too.)

 

[Huss]

I've had two wobbly Planars, and one wobbly Sonnar. All returned.
I'm happy now (we'll see how long for!) with a good Planar and a good Sonnar.
Optically they are excellent, mechanically, not so much.