Zorki 1b lens compability Q

[micromoogman]

I've heard that the early Zorkis have an adjustment base in the body for the lens and that his feature will complicate utilization of later M39 lenses. Is this correct?

 

[reagan]

The lens mount ring to film plane distance on Zorkis should be 28.8mm I believe, with adjustment of this being done by shimming beneath the lens mount ring. Aside from this and RF adjustment, I don't know of any other adjustment in the camera body that would effect the lenses. I also believe that 28.8mm is the distance for Leica as well, so I'm not sure that this would cause any problems with Leica lenses.

If I'm not understanding "adjustment base" correctly, forgive me, and maybe ellaborate a little more.

Cheers ~

 

[micromoogman]

Taken from commiecameras.com: "Most of the first year of production of these cameras have a filled area in the body the same size as and directly behind the lens mount. This is as if they had to have the lenses adjusted and then the area was filled. The production after this time does not have this round area."

 

[Nickfed]

I believe what you are describing is merely the factory procedure for ensuring that the flange <> film distance is 28.8mm, and therefore irrelevant. All that matters is that the distance is correct and you can be pretty sure that it is. I believe all cameras came with a shim behind the flange. The tolerance is +/- .02mm and if it was twice that it would probably be OK. I guess the fill is simply extra, and permanent, shim. I haven't seen it myself. There were non-standard pre-war FEDs which essentially were only good with the lenses they came with, but all Zorkis are post-war.

 

[reagan]

I believe what you are describing is merely the factory procedure ...

Yeah, that would sound about right, in my unlearned opinion. Attached is a [lousy phone-cam] pic of my Zorki.1b without the lens flange (I can never think of that word, "flange"... thanks Nick) and I don't see any sign of "filler" or whatever, though it might not be noticable. My understanding of the early Zorkis is that their body material to be somewhat thinner* than later models anyway, so that might explain the needed filling. But mine had one shim behind the flange like others.

Bottom line, though I may find out different, I can't see it causing compatability problems with lenses. Like Nickfed noted, check it at 28.8mm mas o menos .02mm and go shoot! (As you can see, I haven't shot mine yet; waiting on other parts 🙁 But one of these days...)

Good luck, micromoogman.

edit: * "softer" is more accurate - not thinner. See comments below.

 

[je2a3]

I've heard that the early Zorkis have an adjustment base in the body for the lens and that his feature will complicate utilization of later M39 lenses. Is this correct?

In general most post war Zorkis [1b-1e] unless tampered with were factory adjusted for the 28.8mm Leica standard and should take most screw mount lenses. Pre-war Fed 1s and early post war until the 1f are a bit "iffy", some models are fine others are closer to 28.5mm which means it can only be used with the 50mm lens that "hopefully" issued with it at the factory. There were also issues with the lens flange thread pitch or when a standard LTM lens is mounted the DOF/aperture markings below or at a weird place, sometimes the infinity lock on a collapsible will not lock because it is blocked by the RF window. The 1g model [cup collar shutter guard] had everything straightened out and is the model to look for as a shooter.

You'll be fine with a good condition 1b, just take note that this model typically has a soft body and if it has been abused the body itself can cause issues with lens registration. But a nice 1b has the closest shutter sound to a Leica II.

Joseph

 

[ZorkiKat]

Zorki were supposed to have the standard 28,8mm lens register. But with the Zorki I was getting, many had registers (or 'lens working distances') which were slightly shorter or longer than this. In all cases, regardless of how the body shell was made or designed, shimming with paper spacers (often in irregular bits) was necessary. This would probably show that the body shells were made with less precision. This approach to production also ensured that the month's quota was also realised 🙂

It could also be, as Joseph said, that the Zorki found with non-standard registers, had been reworked to conform with particular lenses. Both FED and Zorki were released with passports which bore the camera's and lens's working distances. The serial numbers of both camera and lens were also there as proof of which left the factory together. It could have been that, sometime in the Zorki's existence, some shimming adjustments were done to customise the camera with a particular lens was done- it is easier to adjust the camera rather than adjust the lens. This was a sound method to do if the camera was to be used with just that lens. A difference by more than 0.02 mm is enough to upset the focus.

FED on the other hand started not only with non-standard registers, but had non-standard lens mount pitches as well. The prewar FED, as well as many post-war ones had lens mounts which had a finer metric thread pitch. Leica had a wider English thread pitch. Cross mounting either lens or camera with different thread pitches will strip the threads.

Later FED also came to have the standard 28,8 mm lens working distance. I've been consistently finding FED-1 above the SN 450xxx range to have consistent 28,8mm working registers. I've had to adjust the FED I got in this range than the Zorki. Not only do these FED have the necessary registers, their lens mounts often match the entry points of Leica lenses as well.

Correct thread entry points are important if the lenses are expected to mount properly (with the index marks seen from the top instead of below, for instance) on the camera. Many Zorki don't quite make this mark. FED, again from the 470xxx range and later tend to have this type of mounts.

Jay

 

[micromoogman]

Ok, thanks all for feedback and for clarifying this. Maybe I mixed things up. I'll check this camera out, it has a five digit 16xxx serial nr. and looks good. I'll bring a couple of lenses too. Maybe it will be my first Zorki 🙂 My best FSU so far is a -59 Kiev 4a.
Pic added. It felt good. Should I? Are these collectible?

 

[ZorkiKat]

Ok, thanks all for feedback and for clarifying this. Maybe I mixed things up. I'll check this camera out, it has a five digit 16xxx serial nr.....Pic added. It felt good. Should I? Are these collectible?

Now that you mentioned it, many Zorki in this serial number range are actually very FED in construction. Yours may have the round pressure plates (as opposed to the "Leica" style pp) and a tiny teardrop shaped rf sensor tip. Another issue with many of Zorki in this range is the soft body shell (easy to deform- I've found many with dents on the place where the right thumb would be when gripping the camera).

Another peskier issue is the tight film chambers found, again in Zorki with five-digit serial numbers. Most factory Kodak and Fuji cassettes insert and eject with difficulty.

Zorki in this range are often found with 28,8mm working registers, and Leica-correct flange mount threads. 🙂

Jay

 

[reagan]

Are these collectible?

They must be at my house! ha! I've only sold one Zorki, but can't seem to release any others. Mine has the 5digit S/N as well and the characteristics described by ZorkiKat. I bought it to hold for future parts, but when it arrived it was so unusual I began to seek out it's age etc. and realized it was a 1b. I have a c & d, so of course, a guy needs a b to go with ‘em, right? (That’s the story I’m telling my wife, and I’m sticking to it. “Oh yes, SweetThang. These are VERY collectible.”) The unique things described by ZorkiKat were enough for me to want to shoot it and give it a permanent home with it's two younger brothers.

Mine has a tight, but workable film chamber. Just takes a little finesse. I’m waiting on a replacement round pressure plate. Mine had none. It also has a very fine line etched in the lens flange to mark “top.” Only Zorki I have like that. I don't think you'll be disappointed with the Zorki.1. I really enjoy them.

 

[je2a3]

I’m waiting on a replacement round pressure plate. Mine had none.

Reagan,

The pressure plate on all Fed-1s are round and should also work on your Zorki 1b. So watch out for parts Fed 1s.

Joseph

 

[reagan]

So watch out for parts Fed 1s.

That's a LARGE help Joseph. I knew the 1bs are very FEDlike. Why did I not figure this out earlier? Thanks! 1bang :bang:

Oleg is doing some work on a Leica.III for me and I've emailed him to send along a pressure plate and springs in the return parcel. But if something goes awry, I'll keep that in mind.

Another rather interesting thing about mine is, it has the short spindle for the take up spool. Not as "positive grip" as the longer spindles, looks quite crudely made, but seems to function okay on dummy rolls tested. If it troubles me later, I'll probably swap it out for a longer one. Mine also is a Zorki.Zorki, export model.

 

[je2a3]

I just have a single Zorki 1b which has a "soft body"and it came with a longer spindlel. The shorter spool is from a Fed 1g or later which bolts on even on a Leica. Either spindle works fine IME. The soft bodied Zorkis have 3 screws at the back [later die cast bodies 1c-1e only have 2] which it shares with all Fed 1s, but the Fed 1 alloy is quite rigid.

On another note, part of the reason why the 1b shutter sounds Leica-like as well as some older Fed 1s is due to the construction and materials - folded alloy bodies and sheet metal shutter crates which gives it that unique damped resonance. Die cast metal sounds different, perhaps brighter and more obstrusive. But that's just my theory....

Joseph

 

[kiev4a]

Speaking of the soft bodies. I have a 1B near mint but it has two slight depressions in the back of the body that match the back of the metal snaps on the "never-ready" case exactly. Apparently just the pressure to snap the case was enough to deform the body.

I agree with an earlier poster who said the 1b shutter sound is probably closer to that of a Leica than anyother Russian model but I seldom shoot mine because of the fragile bodies. I have one 1b, however, that had an unusable shell so I threw it away and substitued a 2c shell. -- quiet shutter and strap lugs! I use it more than any other FSU camera.

 

[reagan]

"...but the Fed 1 alloy is quite rigid."

And soooo... a more rigid FED.1 body shell could be wrapped around the internal organs of a Zorki.1b to replace a damaged unit and probably go undetected, ehh? The body on mine isn’t damaged [yet], but one never knows.

Good idea kiev4a, on the body swap there. I thought I’d miss the strap lugs, but my Leica has lugs of course and I still carry it in a half-case when I want to shoulder it out of a bag.

Is the film canister area hampered by the shutter crate? Maybe the folded material is slightly larger than later models? Just thinkin’ out loud here. 🙄

 

[Buze]

I sort of prefer the Zorki 1d to the later ones; it has more slow speeds, and the shutter is the quietest of my selection. Film advance is also the smoothest.
I also have a Zorki Zorki 1c, but that one is /very/ loud somehow !

 

[je2a3]

Is the film canister area hampered by the shutter crate? Maybe the folded material is slightly larger than later models? Just thinkin’ out loud here. 🙄

No problems using plastic reloadable cartridges on a Fed 1g, which used a die-cast shutter crate very tight fit [or not all] on later die-cast body/shutter crate Zorkis.

Joseph

 

[ZorkiKat]

. Mine has the 5digit S/N as well and the characteristics described by ZorkiKat. I bought it to hold for future parts, but when it arrived it was so unusual I began to seek out it's age etc. and realized it was a 1b. I have a c & d, so of course, a guy needs a b to go with ‘em, right? (That’s the story I’m telling my wife, and I’m sticking to it. “Oh yes, SweetThang. These are VERY collectible.”) The unique things described by ZorkiKat were enough for me to want to shoot it and give it a permanent home with it's two younger brothers.

.

The Zorki which my cat is seen using in my avatar is a 5-digit Zorki. 😀

One more interesting feature (seen only when these are dismantled) that Zorki in this range have is an odd oval hole on the top plate, in front of the shutter dial. It looks just like the one found in Leica where part of the slow speed mechanism goes (the long bar). It seems that many of these Zorki have been "prepped" to receive slow mechanisms, but never did. I've never found this oval aperture in any other Zorki or FED- only in these 5-digit Zorki cameras.

Jay

 

[reagan]

"The Zorki which my cat is seen using in my avatar is a 5-digit Zorki."

Kindred spirits. I guess some of these ol' shooters have 9 lives as well. You made me go check for the "oval hole." Sure enough. Too bad the slow speeds didn't follow.