Zorki 4, copy of which Leica?

[fendercin]

I have both a Zorki 4k and a Leica iiia. I have been considering getting an M mount Leica.

Is the Zorki 4K closest to a screw mount Leica or an M mount Leica? What do you guys think?

 

[JP Owens]

The 4K is closer in look to an M; but, the resemblance is only superficial.

A good working, serviced Zorki 4K isn't a terrible camera. But it is a pretty crude one.

 

[JP Owens]

I've owned and used a number of Zorki's, including a couple of 4K cameras. They often need some kind of attention; but, if working well, they are fun cameras and capable of taking fine photos. Definitely better finders than the LTM knockoff Zorki's.

The M mount Leicas are great cameras, so definitely go with the Leica if you can. My favorites have been the M2 and M5, but I've owned M3, M4 and M6 cameras as well.

 

[fendercin]

Thanks a lot, JP Owens!

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

It's difficult to see the Zorki 4 as a copy of a Leica. The FED 1 was a copy of the Leica model II but then, after the re-establishment of the factory, it was developed by both the designers of the post-war FED and Zorki cameras. By the time the Zorki versions and so on had reached the Zorki 4 it was a Zorki and not a Leica copy. Same thing happened with other firms who copied the original CRF Leica.

As for the next camera, you've the difficult job of deciding whether to be a photographer or a collector. It's a lot easier to be either one or the other. Collecting and keeping the cameras working by using them is a bit of a dog's dinner, imo and experience.

Best, perhaps, to buy a Leica M and then sell the other two after a while. You'll be spoilt for choice looking at all the reviews and comments on the M series on this forum. Good luck.

Regards, David

 

[fendercin]

Thank you, David

 

[bobby_novatron]

There's also one other thing to consider: the thread mount of the Soviet cameras looks and feels the same as thread-mount Leica, but the film registration on the Soviet cameras is supposedly different.

This is only an issue if you shoot FSU lenses on a Leica body, or use non-FSU lenses on a Zorki or other thread-mount camera.

Of course, stopping down to F5.6 or more will negate any problems.

Best of luck with your search. An M-mount camera is a beauty to have and behold.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Four is not close to any Leica. It illustrates period of KMZ going at their own. Too complicated for FSU mass production capabilities.
Z5-Z6 might be the closest one to M exterior, but nothing near to Ms or f-series inner parts.
This is why Zorki is $50, IIf is $150 and M2 is 500 at least.

BTW, stopping down to f5.6 will not resolve anything. To get maximum from FSU LTM lens it must be checked with focusing target and shimmed to be spot on.
Would it be for LTM Leica and FSU or on M.

 

[Wulfthari]

As somebody else has stated, the 4K is not a Leica copy, the original shutter is taken from a Leica III but the rest is more or less original and it's the merge of Leica and Contax design ideas.

It doesn't anything to deal with a M, of course and I personally use FSU on my Leicas without any focusign problems at all.

 

[ForestCap]

There's also one other thing to consider: the thread mount of the Soviet cameras looks and feels the same as thread-mount Leica, but the film registration on the Soviet cameras is supposedly different.

This is only an issue if you shoot FSU lenses on a Leica body, or use non-FSU lenses on a Zorki or other thread-mount camera.

Of course, stopping down to F5.6 or more will negate any problems.

Best of luck with your search. An M-mount camera is a beauty to have and behold.

To answer OP's question first: I wouldn't call Zorki-3,4,5,6 copies of Leica just because they use the a similar shutter mechanism to Leica II's. Many cameras from other companies use the similar(improved) shutter mechanism and we don't call them "copies" don't we? 😉. To me it's closer to an LTM Leica, if you ask me choose one.

I think the registration "flange" distances on FSU M39 rangefinders and Leica LTM rangefinders are the same, with both being 28.8mm. Otherwise using FSU lenses on "real LTM" bodies would either focus beyond infinity or can't reach infinity.

"The shimming": It is said the "50mm" FSU lenses have a slightly longer focus distances than "real LTM" 50mm lenses, thus they need to be pushed a little further (literally what the shim does) to focus to 0.9m with "real LTM" rangefinder coupling mechanism. Since the shim is very thin and thanks to large DOF so it doesn't affect infinity focusing.

However, none of my four Jupiter-8 needed "shimming" to work well on my Canon 7, which is considered to be a "real LTM" camera. I must confess I seldom shoot things at 0.9m.

 

[SteveM(PA)]

The shutter speed dial, with nearly all the speeds having worn away, will likely keep me from loading another roll into my 4K. But it's a cool-looking thing, though, and the allure and challenge of getting nice results out of the crude Soviet gear, the reason I joined RFF so many years ago, still persists.

 

[wolves3012]

The Zorki 4K is KMZ's idea of what a camera should offer, several generations down their development and is derived from the FED, which was itself a loose copy of the Leica II. So it's only a "Leica copy" in the sense that a seller (or user) wishes to draw on the prestige of the Leica brand. It's not built to the same standard or design and to believe it is is deluding oneself or misleading a buyer. However, if it's working properly it's a very capable camera. The analogy is somewhat more removed but should I claim my car (a Ford) is a Benz-copy?