Zorki 4k shutter stuck open (and more)

[drhfuhruhurr]

Hello all,

I'm having a few problems with my newly purchased Zorki 4k and I hope maybe someone here can help.

The initial problems: The second shutter curtain does not return when fired and I can not alter the speed dial.

I'd love to get the camera working again. With that in mind, having never CLA'd a camera before, and with a print out of the excellent instructions from this here forum, both I and my father thought it would be fun to have a go.

So far we have removed the top housing, flash sync and slow speed mechanism. Unfortunately it looks like we are not the first people to take this camera apart as there are a couple of missing screws, various greasy fingerprints inside the camera, and, worryingly, the large cog which should be attached to the slow speed mech was not! It's also filthy in there.

We're up to soaking the mech in cleaning fluid and have just removed the second curtain release arm. We're going to continue following the CLA instructions but have a few questions, too:

How do we fix the the shutter so it operates (returns) properly? Is it a case of this happening in due course of the CLA?

And, how on earth do we get the release arm back into position? It drops in to place quite easily in the position it is in the 2nd of the attached pictures, however, it doesn't want to go back where it was (and we cannot manoeuvre it into position as the black piece that the slow speed mech screws on to is in the way). Is it ok to unscrew said black piece, or...?

I hope I've explained things ok, if not, please let me know and I will try to clarify.

Many many thanks for any help,
Cheers,
Tom.

 

[TVphotog]

The spring attached to the screw at the bottom right hand corner of the black thingie...(technical enough for ya😉 ) needs to either be taken off (unscrew the screw) or moved out of the way. The tip of the arm needs to rest against the stud just above the screw holding the keeper spring. The long arm of the spring will catch against the back of the SSC 9second shutter curtain) arm. It keeps the SSC arm from flopping around.

Yes, the SSC should return to normal operation during the course of a normal operation. Once the SSC is operating normally, you may want to check the shutter tension thread for some helpful hints. If you run into any more problems don't be afraid to ask some more questions. Also, some of us have plenty of parts cameras laying around and may be able to help with some of your missing parts.

ken

 

[drhfuhruhurr]

TVphotog: Thank you very much for your reply. I've just refitted the release arm and it seems to be back into its right position.

Hopefully we'll get to do a little more work to the camera soon, I'll post back with any more problems (or indeed, news of a newly working 4k!).

I'll keep in mind what you said about parts cameras as I might well require a couple of spare parts. However, I have just found what I think must be one of the "missing" screws lodged into the gap at the bottom of the shutter button mechanism. The tip of it was just poking out...!

I've also found a small, thin, black washer near the exposed cog next to the shutter button mechanism (it can just be seen in the second picture). Does this belong here? If not, I don't suppose you know where this might've come from? Seeing at it was in the vicinty of the missing screw I can only presume it could belong with that.

The slow speed mech was only held by one screw (the one hidden under the small gear). Could this be the missing screw (& washer) - it seems to be roughly the same size? If so, should the other one have a washer too?


Thanks again,
Tom.

 

[wolves3012]

There are washers under the slow-speed mechanism screws so the one you've found might come from there. You will need that second screw to be in place, however, since the slow-speed mechanism will not work properly when held by one alone.

You should find that the second curtain will close when you've finsihed the CLA. If it doesn't, you need to think about altering the shutter roller tensions - there's a thread on that in this sub-forum. I notice that in the second picture that the spring that tensions the second-curtain release is in completely the wrong place - that would also explain why the second curtain isn't working properly (although it should just close with the first if the spring is misplaced).

If you are stuck for parts, let me know. I have a "parts" 4K that may yield what you need...I can also probably post pictures of how parts *ought* to look when assembled correctly.

 

[TVphotog]

I don't know about the washer... there always seem to be more left over than what I started with🙄 The slow speed movement should have two screws holding it. If your 'found' screw fits use it. Also, if it was at the bottom of the shutter crate, it might have been causing your problem as well.

 

[Spyderman]

Washers are there to adjust the height of the slow-speeds mech. It needs to be in just the right height so that at fast speeds the speed setting arm doesn't engage slow speeds mech, but at slow speeds when it sits higher it does engage it.

 

[drhfuhruhurr]

Thankyou all for your replies.

The found screw does indeed seem to fit, however, we're still missing a washer. I think I might have a similar size washer from an old RC car which might just do the job though. If I can find it.

When cleaning around the speed setting mechanism, and after removing a large lump of gritty grease, the second curtain suddenly closed. So hopefully that's a good thing!(?)

A good picture of how the second curtain release arm/speed selector and related parts go together would be very useful as I don't think anything is in the correct place at the moment. Also, with regards to the slow speed mech: where should the pin be facing on the large gear - as in the picture (21) in the guide? Top and bottom of said gear were not attached when we opened the camera (another cause of the problems we've been having no doubt).

Currently the camera is on hold as work has got in the way, but hopefully we'll be able to do more at the weekend.

Thanks once more to everyone for their help.
Tom.

 

[wolves3012]

I'll take a picture for you showing how the second curtain release etc ought to look when assembled.

On the slow-speed mechanism, the pin ought to be approximately as shown in the CLA thread, photo 21, when it's unwound. This is only approximate. When fitting it, you have to wind it roughly one and a half turns (anti-clockwise when viewed from above) so the pin is next to the triangular projection by the large wheel. That position has to be held while fitting the mechanism and until it's firmly screwed in place. It has to be pre-tensioned to work properly. You can wind it a bit further if you want but NOT less. When fitted and you release the pre-tension is ought not to unwind very far (unless you over-wound it!).

If the second curtain has closed you must be winning!

 

[drhfuhruhurr]

Thanks again wolves3012. Like I said before, a picture would be extremely useful so I look forward to seeing that.

I need to pick up some oil at the weekend as I don't think I have any medium grade oil/thin motor oil and then we'll start putting it all back together again. A process that I've certainly never been particularly good at!

 

[drhfuhruhurr]

We've started putting the camera back together but have a few worries about the slow speed mechanism. I think we now have the large wheel in the right place - the pin is in a similar position as image 21 in the CLA instrcutions - but are having a few problems.

Winding 3 turns - as per the CLA instructions - seems an impossiblility. We can get it to about 2 1/2 to 2 3/4 turns but it simply will not move any further. Also, the pin does not always return to exactly the same place, usually ending up about 3-5mm short of where it began.

Are either of these problems, problems? If so, what might be the cause and what could be done to fix them (if anything)?

 

[wolves3012]

We've started putting the camera back together but have a few worries about the slow speed mechanism. I think we now have the large wheel in the right place - the pin is in a similar position as image 21 in the CLA instrcutions - but are having a few problems.

Winding 3 turns - as per the CLA instructions - seems an impossiblility. We can get it to about 2 1/2 to 2 3/4 turns but it simply will not move any further. Also, the pin does not always return to exactly the same place, usually ending up about 3-5mm short of where it began.

Are either of these problems, problems? If so, what might be the cause and what could be done to fix them (if anything)?

One and a half turns...read the post again ;-)

The position it should return to is checked AFTER fitting...this should be exactly the same each time. First set the shutter to a fast speed or don't cock it. Now wind the escapement by turning the large wheel by hand and see that it comes back the same position every time.

P.S. Sorry I've not had chance to take some photos yet.