Chinese Red Flag 20 and lenses

[Jocko]

Zhang, I remember a short period - I think in the late 80s - when Great Walls were imported into Britain. The Lubitel TLR was very popular at the time, for much the same reasons that the Holga is now, so the Great Wall received quite a lot of coverage in the photographic press, portrayed as a sort of super Lubitel 🙂 It was invariably described as a copy of a 1930s German camera, but it seems to me to have a personality all its own! In those days MF SLRs were very expensive: I think the Great Wall cost around £90-100, which was shockingly cheap compared to a Hasselblad 🙂

Can I once again thank you for this superb thread?

Cheers, Ian

 

[zhang xk]

Zhang, I remember a short period - I think in the late 80s - when Great Walls were imported into Britain. The Lubitel TLR was very popular at the time, for much the same reasons that the Holga is now, so the Great Wall received quite a lot of coverage in the photographic press, portrayed as a sort of super Lubitel 🙂 It was invariably described as a copy of a 1930s German camera, but it seems to me to have a personality all its own! In those days MF SLRs were very expensive: I think the Great Wall cost around £90-100, which was shockingly cheap compared to a Hasselblad 🙂

Can I once again thank you for this superb thread?

Cheers, Ian

Hi Ian,

I bought two copies of British phtographic magazins, a Practical Photography and an Amatuer Phtography when I was there in mid 90's. I like them very much. I have to say that they are much more interesiting than the Popular Photography published in the US.😀 There were still ADs for Russian gears, but not Chinese. I still wear the leather jacket I bought in Bermingham.🙂

Here is an image I captured a few days ago with a CZJ 35/2.4 when the lighting condition is unique, and this is what I saw from where I live in Beijing.

Cheers,

Zhang

 

[zhang xk]

I found this PLA surplus scope recently. This is a less often seen model, a type 69-1A made by the YUNGUANG factory with the longest Zeiss connection since about 1930. This factory also made those 25-40X100 boarder servey binoculars that are now also available as civilian products.

These artillary scopes are often seen on flea markets. Thay have Zeiss optical quality.😀

Cheers,

Zhang

 

[zhang xk]

Waw! 18,000 hits. I am an internationally well known person.😀

Here is another image of a Chinese military scope. It is not mine yet. I don't see many these types of military scopes on the #bay. Perhaps they are rare and collectable? These were made for all sorts of artillary guns. I think they can be used as hunting scopes.

Cheers,

Zhang

 

[zhang xk]

A 300/5.6 LF lens.(test message)

 

[zhang xk]

book for Chinese cameras

book for Chinese cameras

Seagull 203 prototype type A, and B are found in this book plus many other unknown cameras. This book has 360 pages with hundreds of camera images.

Seagull prototype type A has a red logo, and a 1/500 top speed, and type B also has a red logo, and a 1/400c top speed.

Some messages are got lost, this is a test message.

 

[zhang xk]

Common Chinese Leica-Shanghai 582

Common Chinese Leica-Shanghai 582

Show off my collection of Shanghai 582. All versions from early,middle to last, and all in excellent to mint conditions.😀 I noted that a later version Shanghai 582 is listed on the #bay for $650+.

 

[zhang xk]

Show off my collection of Shanghai 582. All versions from early,middle to last, and all in excellent to mint conditions.😀 I noted that a later version Shanghai 582 is listed on the #bay for $650+.

Once I had about 8-9 Shanghai 582s, but sold some, and now I only have 5 left.:bang: I CLAed the 3rd version in this image, and now it is VERY smooth, and all speeds are accurate.
The one listed on ebay is the last version, and is the most common Chinese Leica.(about 40,000 units)
The 2nd image with a Russian finder is a transition model before the last version. This version has S/N between 5836000-5837000.

Cheers,

Zhang

 

[Jocko]

Dear Zhang,

Forgive me for interrupting your fascinating thread, but I thought this might interest you. I am a great admirer of Chinese graphic art and was intrigued to come across a poster from 1973 ("The fragrance of flowers and fruit in the former course of the Yellow River") which depicts a Chinese TLR in use, presumably by a reporter. I have not seen a similar picture, so I attach a copy and enlarged detail - unfortunately in Black and White.

I also include a cartoon by Hua Junwu, which I found very apt - who can doubt the high motives of we photographers? 🙂

Cheers, Ian

 

[zhang xk]

Dear Zhang,

Forgive me for interrupting your fascinating thread, but I thought this might interest you. I am a great admirer of Chinese graphic art and was intrigued to come across a poster from 1973 ("The fragrance of flowers and fruit in the former course of the Yellow River") which depicts a Chinese TLR in use, presumably by a reporter. I have not seen a similar picture, so I attach a copy and enlarged detail - unfortunately in Black and White.

I also include a cartoon by Hua Junwu, which I found very apt - who can doubt the high motives of we photographers? 🙂

Cheers, Ian

Hi Ian,

These are interesting pictures. I noted that those apples are packed in carton boxes for export to Great Britain ?with English letters.🙂 Those Xiaorenshu(pictured books ) are now collectables. Rare copies could cost many thousand US Dollars. The book title should translate to "黄河古道上的花果香"?
I liked painting before 12, and one of my colour works was selected for an international show by the school.😛 I liked to draw pretty girl faces before I could own a camera.😱

Cheers,

Zhang

 

[Jocko]

Zhang[/QUOTE]

I liked to draw pretty girl faces before I could own a camera.😱
Cheers, Zhang

So did I! 🙂 Sadly I don't have the title in characters, but the transliterated title given in latin script is Huanghe gudao hua guoxiang. I wonder if the English words on the boxes are an allusion to normalisation of relations with the UK and USA which took place around this time? You are so right about the rarity and prices of the books - I only have a few, although fortunately there are several very good western studies now available, which help plug the gaps. One reproduces a poster mocking the gang of four, where Jiang Qing is shown with a camera, which is quite intriguing given the Red Flag 20...

One of the most unusual books I have is an English language history of Chinese matchbox labels (!), published in Beijing in 1989. I have always wondered what this one said 🙂 ......

Cheers, Ian 🙂

 

[zhang xk]

Zhang

So did I! 🙂 Sadly I don't have the title in characters, but the transliterated title given in latin script is Huanghe gudao hua guoxiang. I wonder if the English words on the boxes are an allusion to normalisation of relations with the UK and USA which took place around this time? You are so right about the rarity and prices of the books - I only have a few, although fortunately there are several very good western studies now available, which help plug the gaps. One reproduces a poster mocking the gang of four, where Jiang Qing is shown with a camera, which is quite intriguing given the Red Flag 20...

One of the most unusual books I have is an English language history of Chinese matchbox labels (!), published in Beijing in 1989. I have always wondered what this one said 🙂 ......

Cheers, Ian 🙂[/QUOTE]

Hi Ian,

It sounds to me that you are a Chinese books collector? Those xiaorenshu are very interesting. I think these are unique. Have other countries publised something similar? The matchbox label says " a photographer's eyes".😀

Collecting is a popular hobby in China in recent years. people collect everything. Even cigarettes packings are collected. Some early RMB banknotes have astronomical price tags.:bang: The pictures on those banknotes are very interesting. I will post an image later.

Cheers,

Zhang

 

[Jocko]

Hi Zhang -

I have a great interest in China, both ancient and modern, and the latter also feeds my fascination with political posters and art. I used to buy books quite often from the Foreign Languages Press in Beijing, and had the luck to find a few older ones in a second hand bookshop in a very remote town in Wales, 23 years ago!

Unfortunately the sort of work that particularly interested me was almost absolutely unobtainable, but in the early 90s I discovered that the North Koreans were producing similar material. I now have a fairly good collection of DPRK art and illustrated books - all of which was sent free, and some of which is now modestly rare, judging by e-bay. I have a much larger collection of Soviet material, but that is now very easy to obtain.

The DPKR stuff is very strange indeed. Many of the artists seem to have learned their craft by copying pictures from Chinese and Soviet books. Quite often one finds a DPKR picture which is literal facsimile of an earlier painting, or at least very closely "inspired" 🙂

As to the origins of xiaorenshu ( thankyou! I did not know that was what they were called!), I think one could safely say that they are a distinctly Chinese product. Although somewhat similar material was produced by the Soviets, I would suggest that the ancient traditions of the Chinese illustrated book and print were ultimately much more significant influences. The DPRK has copied them exactly, however 🙂

I would love to see your notes - I have a few little coupon-type notes from 1953 and 1962, but I believe these are very common🙂

As you may have gathered, I too collect things 🙂

Cheers, Ian 🙂

 

[zhang xk]

Hi Ian,

I don't have those rare banknotes, but my mother has some 1st edition notes. She is 85, and is still very sharp.🙂

Here are two rare notes issued in 1951 FYI. The horses cost RMB 300,000, and the Mongolian tents cost RMB 150,000 in average conditions.:bang: I borrowed the iamges from a site. These are some of the rarest notes. My mother has one or two that is listed for 2-3 thousand US$.

Cheers,

Zhang

 

[zhang xk]

Seagull 203 prototype type A, and B are found in this book plus many other unknown cameras. This book has 360 pages with hundreds of camera images.

Seagull prototype type A has a red logo, and a 1/500 top speed, and type B also has a red logo, and a 1/400c top speed.

Some messages are got lost, this is a test message.

Hi,

This interesting book provides some production numbers that I never heard of before. Here are some:

1, 7.1(July 1st) 120 folder made in Tianjin since 1956. about 50 cameras.

2,Shanghai 58-III 120 folder made in Shanghai since 1959. 60+ cameas.

3,Shanghai 201 120 folder made in Shanghai since 1959. 32,000 unts.

4, Seagull 203 120 folder made in Shanghai since 1964. 310,000 units.

5,Juhua 120 folder made in Changzhou in 1973. Only a few prototypes.

6,Zhujiang 60-1(pearl river) 120 folder made in Guangzhou since 1960. 500 units.

7,Shnaghai 581 135 rangefinder made in Shanghai since 1958. 1,198 cameras.

8, Shanghai 582 135 rangefinder camera made in Shanghai since September 1959. 70,000+ units.

9,Seagull 9 rangefinder camera with fixed 40/3.5 lens. made in Shanghai since 1968. about 5,000 units.

10, Seagull KE with a build in meter. since 1983. 161 units.

11, Seagull 88 fixed lens rangefinder camera. Since 1988. 14,600 units.


TBC.

 

[zhang xk]

Hi,

This interesting book provides some production numbers that I never heard of before. Here are some:

1, 7.1(July 1st) 120 folder made in Tianjin since 1956. about 50 cameras.
2,Shanghai 58-III 120 folder made in Shanghai since 1959. 60+ cameas.
3,Shanghai 201 120 folder made in Shanghai since 1959. 32,000 unts.
4, Seagull 203 120 folde made in Shanghai since 1964. 310,000 units.
5,Juhua 120 folder made in Changzhou in 1973. Only a few prototypes.
6,Zhujiang 60-1(pearl river) 120 folder made in Guangzhou since 1960. 500 units.
7,Shnaghai 581 135 rangefinder made in Shanghai since 1958. 1,198 cameras.
8, Shanghai 582 135 rangefinder camera made in Shanghai since September 1959. 70,000+ units.
9,Seagull 9 rangefinder camera with fixed 40/3.5 lens. made in Shanghai since 1968. about 5,000 units.
10, Seagull KE with a build in meter. since 1983. 161 units.
11, Seagull 88 fixed lens rangefinder camera. Since 1988. 14,600 units.

TBC.

12, Hongqi 20(Red flag 20), made in Shanghai since 1970. 300 cameras were planned ,but only 271 were made. Rare prototypes has an all metal winding lever, and a silver 50/1.4 lens. Early Fed Flag 20 has a Leica M3 type back door, and later version has a larger M4 type backdoor.

13, Haiyan 821 120 rangefinder camera with a fixed 62/4.5 lens, made in Shanghai in 1982. Not mass produced.

14, Phenix 205 135mm rangefinder with a fixed 45/2.8 lens made in Jiangxi since 1983. A rare later version has a 39/2.8 lens, and a hand grip. More than 400,000 cameras for all versions.

15, Phenix 205A, experimental model for using b/w film for colour prints.😀 Only 7 cameras were made since 1988 for military use.

16, Phenix 205 special edition for Hong Kong's return in 1997. 100 cameras were made, and was listed for RMB 19,977.10.

17, Phenix JG301 rangefinder with a fixed 38/1.8 lens., and a COPAL 1/500 shutter, a later version has a 35/2.8 tessar type lens. 100,000 JG301 were made since 1981.

18, Phenix JG50. 500 cameras were made in 1999.

19, Phenix T981, and 安原一式(for sale in Japan). 2000 cameras made in 1998.

20, Beijing SZ-1, early version of Changcheng(great wall) SZ-1. 2000 cameras were made in 1967-1968. There are rare versions of Hongguang(red light) SZ-1, and Beijing SZ-1 with Mao's inscription "serve the people".

21, Hongguang PH35 rangefinder camera with a Planar type 38/1.8 lens. Less than 200 cameras were made in 1979 in Beijing.

22, Great Wall 35, a Rollei 35B copy made in 1972 in Beijing. Less than 10 cameras.

23, Great Wall 35 made to order model. Similar to Great Wall 35. 5 cameras made in 1973.

24, Changjiang 135, a copy of Smena made since 1958 in Chongqing until early 1960. 30,000+ cameras were made. This camera was made by a musical instruments factory.

25, Dalai 35 mm rangefinder camera, a copy of Leica II made in Beijing in 1956. 12 prototypes were hand made. The 1st camera has a s/n of 00101.

TBC.

 

[Joao]

Seagull 205

Seagull 205

Thank you Zhang for the comprehensive and fruitful thread. You have provided valuable and scarce information and a set of very interestig photos. I would like to ask you if there is any logic or connection between the camera series number to the year of production with the Seagull 205 cameras. I recently bought one
http://public.fotki.com/BlueWind/seagull-205/
I believe this is in no way a rare camera, but it has a very sharp lens, it is a pleasure to use. The number is 30195 - can you estimate its age?
Thanks in advance
Joao

 

[zhang xk]

Thank you Zhang for the comprehensive and fruitful thread. You have provided valuable and scarce information and a set of very interestig photos. I would like to ask you if there is any logic or connection between the camera series number to the year of production with the Seagull 205 cameras. I recently bought one
http://public.fotki.com/BlueWind/seagull-205/
I believe this is in no way a rare camera, but it has a very sharp lens, it is a pleasure to use. The number is 30195 - can you estimate its age?
Thanks in advance
Joao

Hi Joao,

As far as I know, Seagull 205 has consecutive S/N. Your 205 could be the 30,195th camera. Seagull 205 were made since 1965. Early version has an all metal wind lever. Seagull 205 changed its name to Phenix 205 in 1983. I would estimate late 1960's for your camera.

Kind Regards,

Zhang

 

[J-Paul]

Hi, Zhang
Do you know this camera ?
Chinese ?
Cheers
JP🙂

 

[zhang xk]

Hi, Zhang
Do you know this camera ?
Chinese ?
Cheers
JP🙂

Hi, J Paul,

I am not sure. It looks like a Seagull 501, but it has no Seagull logo.😕

Cheers,

Zhang