my Leica Store Berlin experience - snobbism at its best

[kevin m]

An experienced salesman can usually size up a deadbeat, doofus, toxic cheapskate, time-waster, tire-kicker, touch-and-play-but-no-buy or dunce in about 3 seconds flat, if not sooner. If they have been in the business awhile, they are deadly accurate.

I'm gonna have to call "bullsh*t" on this one. A good salesman would never judge a customer by his or her appearance. You can simply never tell, by looking, who is or is not prepared to make a purchase.

In Malcolm Gladwell's book "Blink" he cites the example of a Nissan salesman in New Jersy, Bob Golomb, who sells twice as many cars as does the average salesman. He says this about him:

He follows, he says, a very simple rule. He may make a million snap judgments about a customer's needs and state of mind, but he tries never to judge anyone on the basis of his or her appearance. He assumes that everyone who walks in the door has the exact same chance of buying a car.

He also has a stack of letters from years worth of satisfied, repeat customers.

 

[Mohan]

An experienced salesman can usually size up a deadbeat, doofus, toxic cheapskate, time-waster, tire-kicker, touch-and-play-but-no-buy or dunce in about 3 seconds flat, if not sooner. If they have been in the business awhile, they are deadly accurate. It's not worth their while to pander to them.

Look in the mirror and see honestly if you're one of those. Don't overestimate yourself.

Displaying that kind of snobbery just makes one look incredibly insecure and un-classy.

 

[photogdave]

Well this has been very interesting! I work in a retail environment selling video camera equipment. I do not work on commission or get tips.
Noci's situation sounds unfortunate. To play the devil's advocate, could there have been a miscommunication due to language barrier? Maybe the salesman was having a bad day? I don't know, but if he really was that rude I wouldn't shop there again.
However, if someone came into my store with Nick's attitude, snapping fingers and treating me like a "table monkey", I'd tell him to get bent and kick him the hell out of my store.
We're all human beings here and should be treated with mutual respect. Just because I'm in retail doesn't mean I "live to serve" or any of that B.S. That attitude just fosters resentment, anger and even worse service.
Believe me, I used to work on Princess Crusies where the staff were told "you are not allowed to say the word NO to any passenger". OF course the passengers knew this too and used it as an excuse to walk all over us and treat us like crap. The worse they acted, the harder we tried to screw up their cruise! Nice friendly passenges somehow had a very good time!
So be polite and patient to retail workers. You're no better than them and they are no better than you. Eventually we are all each other's customers.

 

[tbarker13]

Not terribly surprising. In my own experience, that seems to be a pretty common attitude when dealing with salespeople in specialty shops - camera stores, golf stores, gun shops, etc. It is almost as if they feel that they are part of some exclusive club - with the authority to decide who else gets in.

 

[alternatve]

I've seen a petite teenage girl walk into a camera store and buy a Canon 30D and a 70-300mm USM IS L lens while many other potential customers stopped at asking questions and trying on equipment. I got a 50mm f1.8 lens there myself, not exactly a breaking deal, but I had a good time there chatting with the salesperson about cameras. He even let me handle his personal hassy, and let me try on so many pieces of equipment that I must have blushed in embarassement. Needless to say, I left the store a very satisfied customer and now do not hesitate to recommend that store to all my friends.

One satisfied customer and a whole lot of free advertisement. That salesman has a lot to learn about service and customer satisfaction.

Samuel

 

[dll927]

A farmer went to a dealer and and bought a new car. He soon found that everything he wanted on the car cost "extra".

A while later, the car salesman showed up at the farm and wanted to buy a cow. The farmer's sales slip read:

1) Basic cow: $200
2) Two-tone exterior: $100
3) Dual horns: $50
4) Automatic fly swatter (tail): $40
5) Four-spigot milk dispenser: $90

Total cost of cow as equiped: $480

Maybe those Berliners are still suffering from being divided four ways. In any case, if their prices are anything like the advertised prices on some of the evil-bay dealers in Germany, you would have to mortgage the house to pay them.

 

[noci]

That shop probably lost a sale so you essentially won. Same reason why I will never never fly Air France again.

oh gawd, don't mention Air France.... that would call for a separate, quarantined thread! 😉

 

[matt fury]

No, I think it's true that an experienced salesman can usually figure out if someone is a serious shopper or not very quickly - but it's not based on looks. And it definitely doesn't warrant rudeness.

 

[noci]

Noci's situation sounds unfortunate. To play the devil's advocate, could there have been a miscommunication due to language barrier?

Naw I speak German perfectly.
And yes, if the dude had been more cooperative, I might have bought a lens on the spot. despite my hobo looks. hehe.

 

[Charles Bogel]

Please note I was not talking about looks alone.

I'm talking about the entire gestalt of a customer. Visual and non-visual cues.

Don't get so huffy, you know it's true.

I used to sell on the camera show circuit for many years. In my case, I can tell you I could always tell a buyer from a non-buyer at a glance.

 

[Charles Bogel]

Now what's wrong with tire-kicking? Or is one supposed to buy something in every store he ever walks in?

There are people who NEVER buy, but who want to handle every camera and lens they look at.

The last camera show I went to (as a buyer, not a seller), a good friend of mine who is a seller answered silly questions from a self-professed Leica "expert" who picked up every Leica and Leica clone on his table, ground the shutter a hundred times, then the Leica "expert" wanted to know how to open the back "they can't load from the BOTTOM, can they?".

Finally, he managed to jam the shutter of a pristine Leotax. He said he'd be back in 20 minutes to go to the cash machine to "purchase a lens".

Of course, he didn't come back.

 

[rxmd]

I'm talking about the entire gestalt of a customer. Visual and non-visual cues.

Don't get so huffy, you know it's true.

I know mainly that it seems true. I used to work selling computers for a couple of years. After some time it's very tempting to think that you can judge any customer by his looks and manners, gestalt, whatever, once they enter the shop. To some extent that is possible, but only to some extent, and the others are a real problem for you as a retail salesman. The false positives on the annoying customer alert mean that you stupidly lose a lot of money due to your own attitude (the case here, always a bad idea) and the false negatives mean that you waste a lot of time. Always treat a customer friendly at least the first time you see them - you don't know on the first glance who will be coming back in a week for service with viruses all over their system, or who will be coming back in a week to buy add-on hardware. You may make a guess, but a false guess will mean either a lost customer or a waste of time.

The authoritative NYC accent is probably somewhat similar to the conferred-by-birthright Berlin gruffness 😉

Philipp

 

[weser]

Sounds like you're describing one of those lovely German characteristics I can't f@#$%*g stand.

Before somebody here now starts throwing things at me, I'm allowed to say this. I am German. Just don't live there anymore, by choice.

PS: You'll mostly find, the owners of kinda posh stores are the nicest people. It's the employees who have the attitude.

 

[Charles Bogel]

On the other hand, when I do sell, I sell for pleasure, to meet other like-minded people, and to swap things I no longer want for things I do want now.

I'm not all that concerned about eking out every dollar or placating the idiot. I don't need the money to survive, and the camera trading is for MY pleasure. I don't really care about nebulous "future deals" or goodwill.

I'm not rude to people, but once I determine that it's a no-win situation for me, or that the deal can backfire in future returns of the item or crazy problems, I cut it off dead.

If they want to learn, depending on their attitude, I'm happy to impart knowledge, but I feel no obligation to humor a demanding jerk or run a photography school.

I remember one time, someone wanted to buy an otherwise pristine lens with a tiny nick on the front element. They asked questions for 20 minutes, and I explained how a tiny nick on the front element would not have any effect on the images, and that it was excellent buy for a user lens at a very low price.

After all that, they angrily raised their voice, accused me of being a "con artist". THEY KNEW that the little spot on the front element would show up as a BIG DOT on every frame. I was LYING to them to make the sale.

How could I tell them that it wouldn't show up on their photos with a straight face, they demanded???

 

[Charles Bogel]

There are deadbeats, doofuses and time-wasters. Then, there are many who are not.

There are people who will NEVER buy anything, even if hell freezes over, but will waste as much time as you are willing to allocate to them.

An ability to distinguish between the two can be a valuable business asset.

If you want to be a nice guy to the exclusion of everything else, then you can sing "kumbaya", play guitar, and ignore certain realities of human nature.

 

[xayraa33]

On the other hand, when I do sell, I sell for pleasure, to meet other like-minded people, and to swap things I no longer want for things I do want now.

I'm not all that concerned about ecking out every dollar or placating the idiot. I don't need the money to survive, and the camera trading is for MY pleasure. I don't really care about nebulous "future deals" or goodwill.

I'm not rude to people, but once I determine that it's a no-win situation for me, or that the deal can backfire in future returns of the item or crazy problems, I cut it off dead.

If they want to learn, depending on their attitude, I'm happy to impart knowledge, but I feel no obligation to humor a demanding jerk or run a photography school.

I remember one time, someone wanted to buy an otherwise pristine lens with a tiny nick on the front element. They asked questions for 20 minutes, and I explained how a tiny nick on the front element would not have any effect on the images, and that it was excellent buy for a user lens at a very low price.

After all that, they angrily raised their voice, accused me of being a "con artist". THEY KNEW that the little spot on the front element would show up as a BIG DOT on every frame. I was LYING to them to make the sale.

How could I tell them that it wouldn't show up on their photos with a straight face, they demanded???[/QUOT


tell them to put a piece of black tape of the size similar to the nick of the Leica lens on their UV filtered lens and see the results on a print.

 

[rxmd]

How could I tell them that it wouldn't show up on their photos with a straight face, they demanded???

Have a digital camera lying around. Take an old skylight filter, ask them to make a mark on it with a removable black felt tip marker and to take a picture. Then have them look for the mark on the display. 🙂

Philipp

 

[Charles Bogel]

I agree, you could tell them anything to prove my point, but ultimately, there is no profit in getting unto an unwinnable technical argument with an ignoramus who thinks he knows everything. It's better to just drop it.

 

[rxmd]

I agree, you could tell them anything to prove my point, but ultimately, there is no profit in getting unto an unwinnable technical argument with an ignoramus who thinks he knows everything. It's better to just drop it.

Completely right. But you assert that you can spot ignoramuses from their gestalt before they even open their mouth, in order to treat them accordingly from the begining, and judging from experience you're likely to alienate a number of potential customers with that sort of strategy. Obviously if you sell some of your old equipment at camera fairs for fun, your bottom line isn't really seriously at stake, but when it is, such in a retail environment, alienating potential customers is normally a Bad Idea.

Philipp

 

[robert blu]

my suggestion after having read this story : let s make next european RFF meeting in Berlin, and every ten minutes anyone of our group enter this shop and ask...if they have that new cheap plastic lens with an M mount...
robert