XPAN Framing Accuracy--and the lack of it

[Rob-F]

This is with regard to the original XPAN, not the XPAN 2. I am finding that the camera's finder covers a wider angle than the 45mm lens itself. Objects that are well within the finder are not infrequently outside the margins of the negative. I wear glasses, and I'm finding that even when I do not press my eye up close to the finder, and making no effort to "scan" around the finder edges by shifting my eye position, there is still some risk that something near the edges will be left out of the picture.

I had meant to post some examples, but I am having trouble getting my scanner to work with these wide negatives.

Has anyone else had the experience of finding that some of the XPAN view did not appear in tha actual picture?

This is only in reference to the 45mm lens when using the built-in finder. I have no complaints with the 30mm using the auxiliary finder.

 

[didjiman]

Is it distance related? I often find that the TX-2, especially the 30mm finder shows LESS than the actual frames so more stuff is on the picture. Don't think it shows more though.

 

[chris000]

On my X-Pan 1 the viewfinder shows very slightly less than appears on the negative. But it is very slight and it doesn't bother me because I'm used to it and compose accordingly

 

[Jim Watts]

I wear glasses but can see the framelines clearly and my perception is that my XPan I with the 45mm lens gives slightly more on the negative than I see inside the framelines, except perhaps when close in. I usually compose tight to the framelines.

 

[Rob-F]

Uh, framelines, Jim? The only framelines I see in my finder are apparently for the 90mm, which I don't have or use. They cover the same width as a 50mm on my M3. I assume that is consistent with the 90mm coverage on the XPAN format. But I have no framelines for the 45mm lens. Should I? I've assumed you are supposed to compose out to the hard metal edges of the finder.

 

[didjiman]

Uh, framelines, Jim? The only framelines I see in my finder are apparently for the 90mm, which I don't have or use. They cover the same width as a 50mm on my M3. I assume that is consistent with the 90mm coverage on the XPAN format. But I have no framelines for the 45mm lens. Should I? I've assumed you are supposed to compose out to the hard metal edges of the finder.

You sure you don't have the 45mm framelines? If not, then it needs fixing. Be aware that when the 90mm framelines appear, it's also magnified so it may look very similar to the 45mm lines. May be that's the problem?

 

[Rob-F]

Well, what do you know? That was really helpful! I took the lens off, and looked for a frameline setting cam, like on a Leica M. There is one! For some reason my 45mm does not actuate it. But I pushed it down with a tiny screwdriver, and there, for the first time, was the 45mm frame.

Now to figure out why the lens won'y actuate the cam.

 

[Rob-F]

Well, I don't know. The tab inside the lens mount moves smoothly when pressed. The lug on the lens mount appears not to have been altered. It still has the chrome plating on it not filed down for any reason. Yet the lug won't actuate the cam. It will, a little, if I hold down the lens lock release button and turn the lens beyond the lock position until it stops. I can see the finder beginning to change. But not enough to bring in the 45mm frameline. I think I'll ask David Odess if he works on the XPan.

 

[jan normandale]

Well, I don't know. The tab inside the lens mount moves smoothly when pressed. The lug on the lens mount appears not to have been altered. It still has the chrome plating on it not filed down for any reason. Yet the lug won't actuate the cam. It will, a little, if I hold down the lens lock release button and turn the lens beyond the lock position until it stops. I can see the finder beginning to change. But not enough to bring in the 45mm frameline. I think I'll ask David Odess if he works on the XPan.

I'm betting that you have a pre owned camera and the former owner may have had a difficult time seeing the framelines and decided to deactivate the cam on the lens somehow.

I'd guess he'd use the entire viewfinder frame as his reference instead and work without any framelines, just the viewfinder. It probably worked for him. Just a guess.

 

[Rob-F]

I doubt that someone had it disabled. There would be no point. Hopefully it is just a matter of adjustment. I have emailed Dave Odess, my Hasselblad tech. We will see what he says.

It all makes sense now. I ought to have known there was supposed to be a 45mm frameline!

 

[jan normandale]

I doubt that someone had it disabled. There would be no point. ... ought to have known there was supposed to be a 45mm frameline!

Rob you may be right but my imagination likes the idea.

 

[Jim Watts]

Well, what do you know? That was really helpful! I took the lens off, and looked for a frameline setting cam, like on a Leica M. There is one! For some reason my 45mm does not actuate it. But I pushed it down with a tiny screwdriver, and there, for the first time, was the 45mm frame.

Now to figure out why the lens won'y actuate the cam.

Rob,
Although you say it moves smoothly I would think it is the cam lever in the body that is sticking in some way and not a lens problem. Without any lens attached the body should show the 45mm framelines not the 90mm ones. It should not need pushing down to show the 45mm frame.
Jim

 

[Rob-F]

What I see with no lens mounted--or with the 45mm mounted-- is the same width inside the frameline, as a 50mm frameline shows for the 135 format. And this morning I noticed that when I actuate the lever inside the camera, something changes optically in the finder; but the frameline I then see still only covers the same width as before. What is changing is the finder magnification. And now that I see that, the finder does cover more width without pressing the lever down. But the frameline still covers only that 50mm equivalent width (judging by a Leitz 50mm viewer) in either position. So really I am seeing only one frameline in either position of the lever, and it seems to be for the 90.

So now I'm really confused. Maybe there is no 45mm frameline on the XPAN 1?

 

[graham mouat]

This may well be a silly question, but you have got the camera set to its panorama setting haven't you? If it's set to the normal setting then the view through the viewfinder will be the same as a leica 50mm one.

Or perhaps this is where the fault lies - it's not switching correctly between the two modes?

Graham

 

[Rob-F]

Not a silly question at all, Graham. All suggestions are welcome! Yes I do have it set to the panorama position. And I have tried moving it back and forth, wondering if exercising it would snap the 45mm frameline into view. So far, it has not.

Actually the normal frameline helped me to realize that the wide frameline I see is not for the 45mm lens. The normal frame is higher than the pano frame I am getting. Since the focal length doesn't change between standard and pano, the widescreen frameline ought to be the same height as the standard one. But it isn't. It's narrower, and about the right size for the 90mm (which I don't own).

It's enough to make me question whether there really is a 45mm wide frame, or if I'm chasing something that doesn't exist. But as I slowly move the switch from standard to pano, for a brief instant a can see a fraction of the upper left part of what must be the panoramic 45mm frame.


I'm going to try fiddling with the lever some more. Jim pointing out that the camera should already be in the 45mm position without moving it has given me an idea. Maybe it needs to be pushed the other way!

Edit: No, the lever resists upward movement. It is quite solid against being moved upward. I though maybe it was hanging in an in-between position, but it won't move. There does appear to be another mm of clearance in the channel it rides in, so maybe it is blocked internally someplace.

What next?

 

[Odradek]

There should be a frame line displayed in the viewfinder as a dashed rectangle. You should be able to see this with or without a lens fitted. Pushing down the cam inside the throat of the camera will display the 90 mm frame. The lever on the back of the camera selects between P - panorama and a normal frame. Again the frame lines should be displayed and change when you rotate the lever regardless of a lens being fitted or not. It does not matter if the camera is turned on or off. I take my glasses off to look through the viewfinder and the frame lines are clearly displayed well inside the total field of view.

Derek

 

[Rob-F]

Yes, there is a frameline in the viewfinder, and is present with the lens on, or with it off. And it meets the description of a dashed rectangle. So far, so good. But it only occupies about 35% to 40% of the total width of the finder. On the other hand, my pictures are most like what I see in the finder when I use perhaps some 80% to 85% of the finder width. Thus, the frame I have must be the 90mm one. If I were to frame inside the brightlines I have, the 45mm lens will take in far more than I bargained for.

So I guess the question comes down to: how to get the proper 45mm framelines to show up? No amount of fiddling with anything has worked.

 

[Haonavy]

I actually noticed this with mine today while scanning some negatives:

While trying to use the last couple frames from a roll, I remember not being able to back up far enough to get the whole scene - but just barely not enough...

Anyways, when I scanned the negative, to my surprise I ended up getting the entire scene in the picture. The panoramic through the 40/4 lens has a good 2 or 3 degrees more on either side (not top to bottom).

The scene was close to the infinite mark - but not quite - and I shot at 1/125th @ f/4 on Ilford Delta 400 pushed +2.

Hmm... I wish I would have found this thread earlier and I would have posted a picture and drawn where I remembered the framelines - but alas, it is on my work computer...

 

[Rob-F]

Well, at least you have the right framelines for the lens. It is typical of rangefinder cameras to get a little more on the negative than you get inside the framelines. My problem is I do not have my 45mm framelines, so I have to guesstimate based on the entire view within the finder.

 

[Jim Watts]

Rob,
In standard not panoramic setting do you see the 45mm frame which should cover approx half of the width of the whole finder but centered and about 75% of the height (centered)? Does this change to the 90mm frame which only covers about a third of the width and just about 1/2 the height (centered) if you press the lever.

Again without a lens attached the camera should show the standard frame for the 45mm lens.

Jim