Will falling prices of Leica film cameras kill the M9?

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marke

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Just a thought. I doubt anything can kill this dream RF, but given the present economy and the fact that Leica film cameras are getting more affordable each year, how will this affect M9 sales?
 
It will not : if you want to shoot film and have a pure analog workflow, you don't look at the M9. If you want a hybrid workflow, a good 35mm scanner and a Mx will get you somewhere in the region of the M8, not near the M9. Of course, I am talking used vs. new, since the M9 can be got only new, but it is nothing to compare, really.
 
slungu said:
It will not : if you want to shoot film and have a pure analog workflow, you don't look at the M9. If you want a hybrid workflow, a good 35mm scanner and a Mx will get you somewhere in the region of the M8, not near the M9. Of course, I am talking used vs. new, since the M9 can be got only new, but it is nothing to compare, really.
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Are you talking in terms on image quality? Because for a few years people have been saying their old film M's take better pictures than the m8. Also, I don't think the m9 blows away film in a way to make them 'incomparable,' especially considering how many people put their digital files through SilverEfex/ColorEfex afterwards to make their images look more like film.

In terms of price, you can still get a M2 body and a film scanner for under $1000, while the m8 is roughly double that, m9 over 7 times that.


Regarding the question raised by the OP, I think I have to agree with slungu. The people who are in the market for an M9 aren't going to decide not to get one just because they can get an M3 cheaper now (for example). For a lot of people the m9 is what they've been waiting for, and considering the price differences I don't think people seriously considering a m9 will care what the price of a film M is, since if they're buying a new m9, I'd assume they'd look at a new MP or M7 and evaluate it as 'for less than 50% more, I can have a full frame digital.'
 
marke said:
Just a thought. I doubt anything can kill this dream RF, but given the present economy and the fact that Leica film cameras are getting more affordable each year, how will this affect M9 sales?
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Nikon FE/FM/F3 are quite cheap these days. Does that kill Nikon DSLR sales? Nops, they are selling like hotcakes.
 
joachim said:
Nikon FE/FM/F3 are quite cheap these days. Does that kill Nikon DSLR sales? Nops, they are selling like hotcakes.
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Although I agree with your implication that you don't think used prices will kill the M9, I think the argument you're making is bogus. Nikon and Leica target very different customers. The average DSLR customer knows very little about Nikon's film cameras from the past, while an M9 customer very likely owns at least one film M body. Nikon, and all other camera companies making consumer level DSLR's market them to soccer moms. Leica markets the M9 at serious photographers and people who simply have a **** load of money.
 
marke said:
Just a thought. I doubt anything can kill this dream RF, but given the present economy and the fact that Leica film cameras are getting more affordable each year, how will this affect M9 sales?
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The target market for the M9 has overall, I imagine, felt nothing more than a slight pinch from the recent economic downturn. Some more than others, but I doubt the economy is really going to have a substantial effect on M9 sales.

I also haven't seen used M cameras get much more affordable. I suppose it is possible they will continue to see small losses in value year-over-year as digital continues to improve, but I don't know that these decreases would have much impact on the M9.
 
You have it backwards. It's the M9's release that is killing film camera demand and thus prices.
 
Paddy, M cameras are starting to languish at the offered for sale prices, and I've definitely seen some bargains lately that didn't sell or took a long time to sell.
 
In 1991 you could pick up an M3 for under $400. usually, prices drop as things get older.

If you drop a Film Leica onto an M9, M8, or most other cameras from a height of more than 1ft, it will probably cause severe damage especially if it hits the LCD screen. I pro photographer showed me his then 2week old D2x after a wedding guest tripped over the tripod it was on. Shattered the LCD. $1500 repair.
 
I think Majid and Picket Wilson have it right. My sense is that folks are beginning to scour their closets and photo-shelves for items that can be sold to raise funds. $7,000 is a lot of scratch for most folks and hard to raise for a hobby. If you're a pro and you need it, you do what you have to to get it and then make as much money as you can with it before it breaks. If you're a hobbyist, you have to think about that money in terms of the pleasure you will get from it. I would look for some very good deals on M cameras and glass as well as last-generation DSLRs (5D, D3 and so on) over the next year or so.

BTW: I think that the whole film vs digital debate has been dead a while -- at least it has for me. At low ISO's, I love the M8 and I'd stack it up against a negative from a Hassleblad. To those who think the M8 isn't up to the challenge: I say "HA!" In the mid-range, I've got to say I still like film and the images from 400 speed film (anything but TMAX 400, which I was never disciplined enough to figure out) are more interesting to me than their digital counterparts.

Ben Marks
 
Actually there are plenty of people around who think nothing about spending well over one hundred thousand bucks on a car. Their wives get their hair and nails done every week and wear designer clothes. There are still people buying boats over 100 ft, complete with a paid crew. The money is out there. Just hope that they don't all decide to become Leica user/collectors.
 
Al Kaplan said:
Actually there are plenty of people around who think nothing about spending well over one hundred thousand bucks on a car. Their wives get their hair and nails done every week and wear designer clothes. There are still people buying boats over 100 ft, complete with a paid crew. The money is out there. Just hope that they don't all decide to become Leica user/collectors.
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Dear Al,

Just hope that they do! How much better could things get for Leica?

Cheers,

R.
 
Roger, directly across the road from the North Miami Post Office is a dealer for Lamborghini autos. They seem busy enough. I would imagine that more Lamborghini autos get sold in this country each year than Leica M8s. Maybe they need a tie-in? "Buy a new Lamborghini and get a free Leica M8".
 
IdeaDog said:
I find it refreshing that markE asked the question. He gets two points for the reversal!
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Thanks, IdeaDog. Truthfully, I meant my OP to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek. ;)

I know that Leica film camera prices haven't dropped dramatically. However, it seems that with so many on the market right now (dumping to get an M9?), that their value might go down as they become more plentiful and the buyers have better picks of the litter.

I'm not sure how much the economy will have on the sales of M9. Maybe no difference. But if a good number of the buyers really are those who are selling off their film cameras, are we really talking about people with limitless disposible income?

Al Kaplan said:
Roger, directly across the road from the North Miami Post Office is a dealer for Lamborghini autos. They seem busy enough. I would imagine that more Lamborghini autos get sold in this country each year than Leica M8s. Maybe they need a tie-in? "Buy a new Lamborghini and get a free Leica M8".
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I don't know about giving one away, but I would think a combined marketing program to this clientel would be an intelligent move on Leica's part.
 
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The M8 and 8.2 still sold despite being dreadful (in my opinion, not trying to start a flame war here), so I doubt that anything could kill the M9, since by all early indications they have actually done a decent job with it. It still has a couple of aspects that make me question the quality of the dope they are smoking in Solms, but overall it is the closest to the modern era that leica has been since the fifties. For what it is, the price is somehow quasi-reasonable (you would spend close to that speccing out a film MP to reasonable standards through the build your own program, the overrun would be spent in a year or two on film), and the IQ is pretty good, despite achieving lots of it at the expense of a lack of an aa filter.
 
I wouldn't read too much into it. Camera prices tend to be cyclical. In fact, it's a good buying opportunity for those who have been wanting to get a Leica.

Rollei's recent financial collapse sent up prices of Rolleiflex TLRs. However, it had little to no effect on its other cameras.

In time, prices probably will rise again and possibly find a new settling point.
 
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