How long do we think digital Leica M cameras will last?

Coldkennels said:
For comparison, I picked up a 1970s record player from a second-hand store back in 2013. It needed a new stylus and a new drive belt for the turntable, and then it was as good as new, and is still running fine today. Simple components, easily sourced. On the other hand, I've lost count of the amount of CD players I've owned since the 90s that have basically had to go to landfill due to failed laser units that weren't user-replaceable as they weren't standardised and easily-sourced parts.

Which reminds me, I've got a dead iPod upstairs that I keep meaning to repair...
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Funny you should mention this. Dad gave me his Linn Sondek LP12 with the big red power button some years ago. Only yesterday, I saw an ad from an Australian hifi shop can update the internals, and now I learn that many places can make such upgrades. As for your iPod, did you know that people are upgrading old iPods with huge solid state drives and non-Apple OS? It's pretty awesome.
 
I suspect that my Intrepid will be working long after I am not. I know that I have several years of 4x5 film in the freezer. Whether or not anyone will care is an unanswered question though several of my grandchildren have been taught to use it.

Maybe I should include the recipe for Caffenol in that same freezer. 😀

Leica has not given me information on their sensor life tests so I am not sure that digital Leicas will outlast their sensor, however long that is.
 
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Archiver said:
Funny you should mention this. Dad gave me his Linn Sondek LP12 with the big red power button some years ago. Only yesterday, I saw an ad from an Australian hifi shop can update the internals, and now I learn that many places can make such upgrades. As for your iPod, did you know that people are upgrading old iPods with huge solid state drives and non-Apple OS? It's pretty awesome.
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Old 'lektrikals seem to go forever.

At home we have a 1980s Pioneer component set (with TWO super good turntables, no less!), a 1990s Kenwood set, and a German-made unit without a known brand, likely Grundig, dating maybe to circa 1970. All 'rescued' from local charity shops, acquired as new (most likely they were donations from deceased estates), all working as they should, and all eminently repairable altho' the cost of same goes up every year, spare parts having to be either scavenged off Ebay et al or imported from overseas. Yet they keep on going.

Camera also. A Leica LTM, four Rollei TLRs, two 1950s German folders, two Nikkormats. Unfortunately, nobody has yet made a mechanical digital camera or knowing me, I would be the proud owner of one of those.

Three Gossens. About 12 'miscellaneous meters.' And 15 Weston Masters, wonderful instruments, even if each and every one Sangamo ever made seems to have a mind of its own.

Not to overlook that when I've used up my fast-dwindling stock of now-ancient films, the cost of buying the stuff new will likely bankrupt me. Or I will dispose of my film gear. Or put them up for display in my glass cabinet. Whatever.

Ipods? Well, I've a few in boxes somewhere around the house. Now I'm encourage to go fossicking for them. Thanks, Archiver!
 
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Ko.Fe. said:
Digital cameras in general, just as film ones have longevity divided by two parts.

First, is how well components are made. To me the only trusted "made" is in Japan. Canon DSLRs will lasts decades with light use.
Most likely same is for Canon SLRs with electronics.

Film Leicas. Light use, maybe decades as well. But they needed CLA. Winogrand has to bring them for service. How long service will be available...

How long parts will be available?

Take design flawed Barnacks with plastic VF/RF rear frame. They do crack, lens gets lost and here is no replacement lenses anymore.

This is part two of longevity. Parts availability. With where manufacturing of electronics is going it is ten years or so.
But we never know. Electronics are getting smaller. Where might be modules with electronic only shutters which will retrofit to digital Ms.

Same could be with mechanical parts in near future. You drop something in receiver, AI analyzes it, plus manual data entry and copy is 3D cooked.
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I must tell our Nikon D90 this. Made in 2009, bought new, goes on shooting and making surprisingly good images for an antique. Like it's owner, but let' not go there...

Ditto my Lumix GF1, gifted to me a few years ago, with two lenses and by far the worst EVF I've ever had the misery of using. But it goes on producing images that amaze me, for its size and small pixel-brain.
 
raydm6 said:
I know everyone means well but why is this turning into a film Leica is better than a digital Leica? We know the longevity argument, but it’s not the question the OP asked.

I don’t own a digital Leica but I don’t knock those that do. If I ever go to buy one, it would probably be an M8 as the images I have seen from that camera are really appealing - although the camera is getting very long in the tooth now.
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A film Leica (my LTM) uses film. A digital Leica makes pixels. For me, that's the difference.

I see many using either or even both. Sometimes I see the results. Which appeal equally, more so for the images than the technicals or even the how-to's.

Most of us are now far beyond film vs digital. The real world throws us up more challenging issues.

For me, it's that simple. Though it amuses me to read posts by all the usual wheel-reinventers. Keep 'em coming, please, many of us do enjoy them.
 
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boojum said:
I think the board knows that Leica really upsets me with their after-sale policies. Support/repair is legendarily slow and expensive. Batteries are rare, expensive and a trip to Lourdes is easier. I understand the Ferrari is as much fun to deal with. My gripe is that it does not have to be this way. They could do better, so why aren't they?
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I've had excellent customer service at Leica - and I credit that to the dealer I've chosen who navigates them for me - Tony Rose at PopFlash.com!
 
Tony handled the repair of my Q, constantly pestering Leica, and it still took 9 months. They quoted 3 weeks. It would have been 18 months without Tony…

Batteries aren’t the issue, cottage industries will fill that need, already are in a small way. Necessary circuits will be reverse engineered.
 
Coldkennels said:
I think you're right - but only in so much as the M9 is one of the only cameras of the era that people are so insanely wedded to. How many other digital cameras from 2009 are still selling for four figures and being waxed lyrical about on the internet? I don't know anyone still using a Nikon D3S or the Canon EOS-1D Mark IV, personally.

Eventually, all things fail - entropy is a bitch like that. It's not if, it's when. The time scale in question might not be relevant to you or me, but your chosen/most beloved camera/car/tool/toy will fail at some point. And as devices get more complex, the components more specialised, the facilities to manufacture them more expensive... the less likely we'll be able to keep them going.

For comparison, I picked up a 1970s record player from a second-hand store back in 2013. It needed a new stylus and a new drive belt for the turntable, and then it was as good as new, and is still running fine today. Simple components, easily sourced. On the other hand, I've lost count of the amount of CD players I've owned since the 90s that have basically had to go to landfill due to failed laser units that weren't user-replaceable as they weren't standardised and easily-sourced parts.

Which reminds me, I've got a dead iPod upstairs that I keep meaning to repair...
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A 1970's record player is a belt, a platter and an electric motor. Come on, comparing that to the intricacies of a CD player? "Hey, my stone ax will outlast your chainsaw!" Yes, but, . . . And not all CD players were created equal. Fortunately they can be made cheaply and are almost a Kleenex item.

The M9 is a good camera. It's not just me, it's a consensus. That you are not part of the consensus does not change the consensus. It's fine that you do not like them. But most folks do. Which is why they still cost so much.
 
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Bill Blackwell said:
The point I was attempting to make is that the secret to good Leica customer service lies not in Leica directly, but in the dealer you choose.
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Yes, and that is the problem. If you get lucky with a dealer you will get lucky with service. It is not a level playing field. That's not good customer service when only a distinct minority get good service. That is favoritism. Not uncommon but when it affects the whole company it is a problem. "Will I be in the favored customer lottery or out in the cold?"

You think it is just great because you are one of the favorites. But what if you were in East Jesus, Ohio, with no access to a favored dealer? What then? I don't want this to degenerate into a discussion of ethics. I just think it would be nice if everybody were treated the same and got good service.
 
boojum said:
Yes, and that is the problem. If you get lucky with a dealer you will get lucky with service. It is not a level playing field. That's not good customer service when only a distinct minority get good service. That is favoritism. Not uncommon but when it affects the whole company it is a problem. "Will I be in the favored customer lottery or out in the cold?"

You think it is just great because you are one of the favorites. But what if you were in East Jesus, Ohio, with no access to a favored dealer? What then? I don't want this to degenerate into a discussion of ethics. I just think it would be nice if everybody were treated the same and got good service.
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I get great service from my closest brick/mortar store....but they can't help if Leica doesn't have stock, doesn't have parts, or is completely backed up in the repair department. Back in the last 30 yrs both Canon & Nikon had exemplary service with many service centres... cameras weren't as expensive as they are now, and back up bodies were reasonable. I know a few pros who also used Leica....but no one who chose Leica SLRs over Canon/Nikon. What contract pro can afford to be without his ($6-9000) Leica body for 9 months? Lots of working pros....wedding photographers or small town newspaper photographers didn't have the latest/greatest.....& even so had bank loans or lease programmes to keep themselves both in business & eating.
 
Godfrey said:
This thread lost the plot half way through the first page. 🙁

G
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What plot? Is there/was there a plot?

Or maybe it's a closet conspiracy. We've had our share of those here too, in the past. Not as many as in other photo web sites (no names need be mentioned, we all know the usual suspects) but now and then they do pop up.

To me this one seems to have gone the way of most threads in RFF. All over the place.

Which I greatly enjoy, need I say it. Human interactions, sort of thing. We need more (healthy) disagreement and (intelligent) discussion to offset the gloomy events in today's sad world.
 
What is consistently demonstrated us that Leica support is a crap shoot. That's no way to run a railroad. Turnaround times on a Sony A7 is about two weeks. Just mail it in. How about that? Imagine just mailing a Leica in and getting it back two weeks later with no BS along the way with whining about parts or queues or anything. If they just fixed the damned thing and sent it back. Yeah, you have to imagine it because it is not happening. Enough. Everybody knows how I feel about Leica and how they treat you after they sell you the camera.
 
Rather than worrying about how long digital Ms might last, were I in the OP’s shoes I would continue on shooting with the M9 for as long as it lasts. When the M9 finally does reach the end of its functional life for whatever reason, then have a look at the photography landscape at that point in time before deciding what to do next. Perhaps Leica will no longer even be around by then? Given the rate at which technology changes, there’s no telling what the state of photographic tools might look like in say another decade or two.
 
Guth said:
Rather than worrying about how long digital Ms might last, were I in the OP’s shoes I would continue on shooting with the M9 for as long as it lasts. When the M9 finally does reach the end of its functional life for whatever reason, then have a look at the photography landscape at that point in time before deciding what to do next. Perhaps Leica will no longer even be around by then? Given the rate at which technology changes, there’s no telling what the state of photographic tools might look like in say another decade or two.
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Leica will probably be the last camera manufacturer to go out of business. Their margins are the least tied to the quality and reliability of the output from the cameras.

Edit: and I say this from the perspective of loving Leicas.
 
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