Damaso
Photojournalist
So my used M8 arrived in the mail and I snapped a few images (which looked good) before heading out to put it through its paces. The camera went about twenty minutes before freezing up, giving me a shutter fault error. I turned the camera on and off and it was fine before quickly seizing up again. Nothing would bring the camera back. Oddly enough while the shutter would no longer fire I could access the menu, even when the camera was OFF, a very troubling sign. I went home, put the battery on the charger and took out the SD card.
The camera came back to life. I suspected the problem was the continuous shooting mode and I was correct. When I shoot until the buffer is full the camera locks up. This doesn't seem to be a problem in single shot mode (at least not yet) but clearly this is not acceptable.
I too have noticed the inaccuracy of the frame lines, something which is not a deal breaker but more annoying than it should be. The darn thing is much louder than I'm used to but discreet mode does help. Other than that
the camera is good to use, and a more enjoyable experience than using a DSLR. Now I just have to find one that works properly....
Here are a few images from a rather frustrating first day.
The camera came back to life. I suspected the problem was the continuous shooting mode and I was correct. When I shoot until the buffer is full the camera locks up. This doesn't seem to be a problem in single shot mode (at least not yet) but clearly this is not acceptable.
I too have noticed the inaccuracy of the frame lines, something which is not a deal breaker but more annoying than it should be. The darn thing is much louder than I'm used to but discreet mode does help. Other than that
the camera is good to use, and a more enjoyable experience than using a DSLR. Now I just have to find one that works properly....Here are a few images from a rather frustrating first day.
yanidel
Well-known
Since the picture seems to be taken in Northern Europe, I guess it was a cold day ? I have the same issue whenever temperature falls to the 5c range. When I go back home, after an hour, the camera is working again perfectly. Apparently, it is a part of the recocking system that contracts. I guess it is not a big repair but it has to go to Solms ...
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Unlike Nikon or Canon DSLRs the Leica is getting its signals crossed when you press the shutter button multiple times in a row while shooting in continuous mode.
I had the same trouble when switching from Nikon D300 to M8: with the D300 (and all other DSLRs I shot), you can push the shutter button in any given interval, no matter where the shutter cycle is. With the M8, you have to keep the shutter button depressed and let the camera make the pace. The shutter re-cocking on the M8 is much slower than it is on a DSLR and pressing the button several times in a row will at some point upset the shutter release software. You will get a shutter error message and will need to power off the camera to get rid of that.
I think the DSLRs have a buffer that coordinates shutter releases, the M8 has a purely mechanical coupling to the shutter software. If this coupling relays a shutter release command while a previous cycle is still active, the shutter gets confused and freezes up.
Leica had better mentioned this difference in the camera manual, when upgrading from an M7 or an M6 with winder etc. this is no issue, but when upgrading from a DSLR its a huge difference in shooting style.
I had the same trouble when switching from Nikon D300 to M8: with the D300 (and all other DSLRs I shot), you can push the shutter button in any given interval, no matter where the shutter cycle is. With the M8, you have to keep the shutter button depressed and let the camera make the pace. The shutter re-cocking on the M8 is much slower than it is on a DSLR and pressing the button several times in a row will at some point upset the shutter release software. You will get a shutter error message and will need to power off the camera to get rid of that.
I think the DSLRs have a buffer that coordinates shutter releases, the M8 has a purely mechanical coupling to the shutter software. If this coupling relays a shutter release command while a previous cycle is still active, the shutter gets confused and freezes up.
Leica had better mentioned this difference in the camera manual, when upgrading from an M7 or an M6 with winder etc. this is no issue, but when upgrading from a DSLR its a huge difference in shooting style.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
I was going to ask if the M9 has the difference in camera design taken care of, but I think Yanidel already provided the answer there... That is not so very nice...
Only one solution, shoot it like you would an M6 or M7 with a winder attached, keep pressing that button and let the camera make the pace.
Only one solution, shoot it like you would an M6 or M7 with a winder attached, keep pressing that button and let the camera make the pace.
Damaso
Photojournalist
The cold wasn't the problem, this also happens indoors. Actually I was able to recreate the fault on single shot mode simply by filling the buffer. It doesn't happen every time I fill the buffer but it happened once already, which is too often. If I was using the M8 as a main camera this would be very, very serious. As is it is only for documentation in addition to my film cameras. But it will be going back to the dealer once I get back to NYC.
I've heard nightmare stories about the M8 and great stories. I think part of it is luck of the draw. Even with its faults I still like using it better than a DSLR, I just need to get one that works the right way every time...
I've heard nightmare stories about the M8 and great stories. I think part of it is luck of the draw. Even with its faults I still like using it better than a DSLR, I just need to get one that works the right way every time...
Fujitsu
Well-known
Yes, the M8 can be a bit dodgy, especially when you have a DSLR background... I guess this is mostly a software problem and I wonder why Leica wasnt able to make the camera stable and "fool proof" like the average Canon or Nikon by now.
Dave Wilkinson
Veteran
I am continually amazed at the inconvenience, hassle, great expense ( call 'em what you will! ) that people will endure - just to preserve that rangefinder-shooting experience! - sorry! it's just my opinion, that keeps being reinforced. and I shall now retire to the fall-out shelter!
Dave.
P.S.....I've never seen a picture posted - that could not be equalled by my D40 - either!
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Damaso
Photojournalist
I am continually amazed at the inconvenience, hassle, great expense ( call 'em what you will! ) that people will endure - just to preserve that rangefinder-shooting experience! - sorry! it's just my opinion, that keeps being reinforced. and I shall now retire to the fall-out shelter!
Dave.
P.S.....I've never seen a picture posted - that could not be equaled by my D40 - either!
After shooting for a decade plus on SRLS and DSLRs I would be the first to admit they are good tools and that most of the images I capture with my Leicas could be reproduced with a good Canon. The point is I wouldn't lug my DSLR half of the places I take my Leicas. Every photographer has the tools he prefers, that help him or her get the best image. I was so done with DSLRs I chose not to take any digital camera than lug an extra six punds of gear with me just to get a digital picture.
No camera or system is perfect. I think the M8 could be a lot better. From what I hear the M9 and even the M8.2 don't have these problems. As a friend of mine said "when it works the M8 is a great camera." Now that I know what the problem is hopefully I can avoid it, at least until get get home at the end of next week. Then I will get another one, and probably one after that until I find one that works properly. Then I will be happy and life will move on...
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Fujitsu
Well-known
I am continually amazed at the inconvenience, hassle, great expense ( call 'em what you will! ) that people will endure - just to preserve that rangefinder-shooting experience! - sorry! it's just my opinion, that keeps being reinforced. and I shall now retire to the fall-out shelter!
Dave.
P.S.....I've never seen a picture posted - that could not be equalled by my D40 - either!
The D40 is not much fun to use, auto focus and bulky lenses included. (And no metering with manual lenses on the smaller Nikons anyway...) Yes, I liked the files out of my Canons but the sensor is either 1.6 crop for the small cameras, 1.3 for the two-bricks-size 1D. Then there´s the 5D or 1Ds, both bigger and heavier than the M8, fatter lenses too and at about the same price level as an M8 system with Zeiss / Voigtlander lenses.
A most reasonable solution.
My related gripe is that the function (on/off) switch is so easily moved from the on position to the Continuous and Self-timer positions, neither of which I ever use... errr, voluntarily. I actually use it like an M7 without winder, one shot at a time, and of course never face the subject problem.
Damaso
Photojournalist
After working with it a few days I seem to be avoiding the early problem I had. Now about those framelines.....
phatnev
Well-known
He said posted on here. Doisneau shot Nikon and he made some of the greatest photos ever, it's truly just about what will give you what you want. I prefer RF but love my DSLR kit too. Nikon D700 is truly an amazing camera, and I wish that Nikon would pony up and make a RF with that sensor.
Dave Wilkinson
Veteran
- I have indeed!, but somehow seem to have missed their M8 shots - posted on RFF!
Dave.
I am continually amazed at the inconvenience, hassle, great expense ( call 'em what you will! ) that people will endure - just to preserve that rangefinder-shooting experience! - sorry! it's just my opinion, that keeps being reinforced. and I shall now retire to the fall-out shelter!
I feel the same way about myself... I think I must be crazy to only feel like using rangefinders. I wish I could be satisfied with a DSLR.
Dave Wilkinson
Veteran
Probably!....but it's difficult to tell - on a pc screen!, I once posted a shot from my P&S digicam ( on the Leica forum ) and someone said :- "wonderful - you can always tell a Summicron!"
Dave.
Fujitsu
Well-known
Probably!....but it's difficult to tell - on a pc screen!, I once posted a shot from my P&S digicam ( on the Leica forum ) and someone said :- "wonderful - you can always tell a Summicron!"
Dave.
Please post it here.
Damaso
Photojournalist
I really hate it when threads get hijacked.... can you please take your extraneous comments elsewhere? Thanks....
emraphoto
Veteran
Probably!....but it's difficult to tell - on a pc screen!, I once posted a shot from my P&S digicam ( on the Leica forum ) and someone said :- "wonderful - you can always tell a Summicron!"
Dave.
i suppose some folks just like the form and function of the rangefinder Dave. myself included.
as well, i have peered through the viewfinder of a d40 and... well you know the story.
HarryW
Established
Yes, alongwith 5 x4 view camera's, Rolleiflex, Hasselblad, Linhof Technika,
Speed Graphics, Leica IIIf, Leica M3, Asahi Pentax and Leicaflex.
Wonder what his views on the M8 /M9 would have been
Regards
Harry
tightsqueez
Well-known
Damaso, I feel your pain. My first M8 lasted one day due to shutter failure and I was halfway across the planet from any replacement. No matter what you use - always have a back up plan. For me it put absolutely no ill-effect on shooting; I rallied up the M6 and M7 for almost a month until I was able to find another M8. You are right about "luck of the draw" with the M8, some are lemons and some are almost indestructible.
My current M8 which replaced the first has been flawless. So perfect in every respect that is has surpassed the reliability of my M3, M7 and Canon 5D Mk II. If I had to do it again, it'd be the M8 no doubt.
Your dealer should square you away and don't accept anything else until you get the one that will keep up with you. There's plenty of them out there.
Amongst your thread being hijacked, your last question was about the framlines... Well, there's no way around it that they are awful compared to other M cameras. In my own experience I have just got used to them and really could care less. M framelines have always been an estimate to a certain degree. I suppose having an unaltered view of the moment that you are about to capture is a good trade off for exact framing. Others have had reported that the upgraded framelines are much better but do come at a cost. That might be an option if you plan on using the camera for a long time.
My current M8 which replaced the first has been flawless. So perfect in every respect that is has surpassed the reliability of my M3, M7 and Canon 5D Mk II. If I had to do it again, it'd be the M8 no doubt.
Your dealer should square you away and don't accept anything else until you get the one that will keep up with you. There's plenty of them out there.
Amongst your thread being hijacked, your last question was about the framlines... Well, there's no way around it that they are awful compared to other M cameras. In my own experience I have just got used to them and really could care less. M framelines have always been an estimate to a certain degree. I suppose having an unaltered view of the moment that you are about to capture is a good trade off for exact framing. Others have had reported that the upgraded framelines are much better but do come at a cost. That might be an option if you plan on using the camera for a long time.