Ready to give up on Leica (wishing I wasn't)

For high-performance cars, Porsches are incredibly reliable. Sure there have been some issues (anyone like to name a car brand which has never had any?) and yes, if an expensive car goes wrong it costs a lot to fix. But how many other high-performance cars do you see used as daily-drivers?

Suggesting using film or that he 'deserved it'? I guess it was inevitable that the M8-bashers would jump in eventually.
 
jaapv said:
I'm not a fan of the image quality that Japanese cars produce.😛
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Depends on what sort of image you're trying to project, Jaap 😀 In the US, if you want to appear green, you have to drive a Japanese hybrid. Personally I prefer more dynamic range, and don't mind some fine noise at high speeds...hence the M8 and the Porsche 😛
 
Ben Z said:
Depends on what sort of image you're trying to project, Jaap 😀 In the US, if you want to appear green, you have to drive a Japanese hybrid. Personally I prefer more dynamic range, and don't mind some fine noise at high speeds...hence the M8 and the Porsche 😛
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'Appear' being the operative word. In whole-life green terms, they're comparatively short lived, and matters are made worse by the fact that batteries (and from what I've heard, most repairs) are so expensive that beyond a certain age they cease to be economically reparable.

My old Land Rover uses a lot more fuel, but the materials/energy cost amortized over 38 years so far (and no reason why it shouldn't see another 38) make a Prius look pretty sick.

Cheers,

R.
 
Frank Petronio said:
This makes me rationalize buying used rather than new, not that I can afford anything Leica-made new.

Basically, buy proven Leicas used and buy VC lenses new and you'll be OK.
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+1! I bought an M8.2 with 3200 shots on it. Just enough to prove it didn't have any manufacturing flaws and the real bonus was paying half that the previous owner did! 😎
 
They certainly are

They certainly are

The one issue they had in the 911 series was the '75-77 models where they mated magnesium to steel, and the studs would pop before 75K miles. The metals didn't expand as expected when heated, and 1/2 of these cars were being delivered to stop and go southern calif. Also, to save $$, proper oil coolers were options.

They learned from this, and the '78 to '83 3.0l SC all aluminum engines became the most bulletproof of the air cooled 911s ever, usually going 250K + before needing a rebuild, if properly maintained. Reliability like an old Toyota.

Lord Fluff said:
For high-performance cars, Porsches are incredibly reliable. Sure there have been some issues (anyone like to name a car brand which has never had any?) and yes, if an expensive car goes wrong it costs a lot to fix. But how many other high-performance cars do you see used as daily-drivers?

Suggesting using film or that he 'deserved it'? I guess it was inevitable that the M8-bashers would jump in eventually.
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Forget the service, where is quality control?

Forget the service, where is quality control?

Forget the service, where is quality control? The manufacture of a precision product such as a Leica Camera should have enough quality checks built into the system that only on the rarest of occasions could a story like this be heard. Six sigma quality means less than one defect per one million items. A good thing that Leica is not a space shuttle contractor! 🙁
 
Cars for fad chasers.

Cars for fad chasers.

Roger Hicks said:
'Appear' being the operative word. In whole-life green terms, they're comparatively short lived, and matters are made worse by the fact that batteries (and from what I've heard, most repairs) are so expensive that beyond a certain age they cease to be economically reparable.

My old Land Rover uses a lot more fuel, but the materials/energy cost amortized over 38 years so far (and no reason why it shouldn't see another 38) make a Prius look pretty sick.

Cheers,

R.
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Well said, Roger. Accountants stress the initial cost / savings of a product while disregarding the long term consequences of repairs, replacement, etc. At one of my previous employers, the accountants decided to purchase Brand A coolant because it cost fifty cents a barrel less than Brand B. A projected savings of several hundreds of thousands of dollars over the next year, never mind that Brand A went "bad" after two weeks and needed replaced while Brand B was still performing satisfactorily after ten weeks. Hmm, why is it more important to "appear" to be green than to actually be green? Political Correctness has replaced good judgment! 😡
 
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So if I need to buy a car and I care about the environment, I should buy a Land Rover over a Prius? What is the life expectancy of a Prius? Please, not just what you think it may be.

Actually, accountants do look at lifetime cost. That is how you can determine depreciation.
 
Finder said:
So if I need to buy a car and I care about the environment, I should buy a Land Rover over a Prius? What is the life expectancy of a Prius? Please, not just what you think it may be.

Actually, accountants do look at lifetime cost. That is how you can determine depreciation.
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A lot less than 38 years, so far. Ask me again in, say, 2020. Or 2030.

And, um, I did study accountancy but couldn't take the excitement, so I quit. From a tax point of view, depreciation is almost never related to the actual lifetime of an individual product, but is based on a 'typical' life. From an auditing point of view, the tax depreciation furnishes an excellent starting point.

Cheers,

R.
 
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I had such a great experience with Leica USA last summer - fixed my problem (first on a 2 year old camera) and had it back in 2 weeks. 10 Days ago I noticed that the LCD cover was coming loose, so I packed it up and sent it in.

I checked on it today and Sarah estimated a turn around of 3 months. She said she would see if it could be expedited, but no promises. I think I would have been better off sending it to Solms.

I guess life's a crap shoot, I am glad I found an RD-1 a few months ago...
 
Frank Petronio said:
This makes me rationalize buying used rather than new, not that I can afford anything Leica-made new.

Basically, buy proven Leicas used and buy VC lenses new and you'll be OK.
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I bought a used M8 quite recently - died within a week.

My spanky new* M8 is fine, so far......


* - sold as 'ex-demo' - still in the box with zero activations
 
Tim Gray said:
What's so bad about HP Marketing?
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I first came across them many years ago when I was interested in buying a Linhof ballhead (they're Linhof distributors). Long story short they were extremely unhelpful and rude, and their service people (Marflex I think they were called) hung up on me. I ended up buying a used Linhof anyway which TG has been great so no service issues, yet.

After I bought the ballhead I ran across a series of posts on photo.net that just excoriated HP Marketing for stopping people from selling their used Heliopan filters on eBay. A number of people seemed very upset about it and it really seemed that the company was something of a bully. I decided after that (like finder above but for different reasons I think) to steer clear of anything they sold.
 
Sadly, not new, and not exclusive to the M8/M9.

I had a problem with a new 50mm Summilux-ASPH. Leica NJ sent it to Germany. It came back still performing worse than a Jupiter-3. It went back to Germany again - all through Mr. Elwell - and not until 5 or 6 months had passed did i get back a functional lens. Throughout the 'ordeal,' various people in the organization either didn't communicate at all, didn't follow up on promised status messages, or were just plain misleading.

I'm glad, now, to be out of Leica for good. They treat consumers as if we're all dilettantes without deadlines or responsibilities. If you're going to be a small, niche, boutique company, you'd better be nimble and responsive.
 
Finder said:
So if I need to buy a car and I care about the environment, I should buy a Land Rover over a Prius? What is the life expectancy of a Prius? Please, not just what you think it may be.

Actually, accountants do look at lifetime cost. That is how you can determine depreciation.
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I believe the battery is warranted for 8 years/100,000 miles though some states may extend that to 150,000 miles. An unwarranted battery replacement is likely to cost more than the value of the car. As for the battery, it is a toxic cesspool and the future costs of disposal are unknown.
 
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