Leica MP old vs. new? What’s a difference?

Alex Krasotkin

Alex Krasotkin

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Guys, I have seen some posts here indicating old and new MP. Can you explain what is a difference between old and new Leica MP? And what is a serial number, which indicates a borderline between an old and new version?

thank you very much,
Alex
 
One is most likely to recognize the old MP by its huge price tag 🙂

(That's said it's mostly an M3/M2 with specific engravings and an option for attachment of Leicavit)
 
The serial numbers are in vastly different ranges. The new one has a meter. I never did understand why Leitz/Leica chose to give it the same model designation.
 
Alex, just about all of us are using modern MPs, as the old ones are really collectors items. I just looked up my back copies of Leica Fotografie magazine and the MP was announced in the 2/2003 issue.
 
payasam said:
The serial numbers are in vastly different ranges. The new one has a meter. I never did understand why Leitz/Leica chose to give it the same model designation.
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Possibly because all Ms after the M7 are likely to be digital (that's pure speculation), and if so because a lot of other M-combinations are variously misleading (MA, MB, MC, MD, ME, MF, MG... MH is the first one that doesn't sound like something else, but after that there's still Michigan, mark, millilitre, millimetre, Minnesota, Missouri, metol-hydroquinone, mister, ms., mount (or Montana), an Olympus camera, Motor Vessel, flash synch, possessive pronoun, East German motorcycle (Motorradwerk Zschopau).

All right, MP is also Member of Parliament, which one could take as misleading and insulting, and Military Police, but it's (a) well established and (b) better than many of the alternatives.

Guess who's looking for displacement activities to avoid further research on whether it's legal to park motorcycles on the sidewalk in Hungary, and similar information of great use to motorcyclists but limited appeal when it comes to doing the hard research.

Cheers,

R.
 
Roger Hicks said:
.....
Guess who's looking for displacement activities to avoid further research on whether it's legal to park motorcycles on the sidewalk in Hungary, and similar information of great use to motorcyclists but limited appeal when it comes to doing the hard research.
Click to expand...
Is he known to drive a four-wheeled vehicle with body made from aluminium, from time to time?

To the OP - here are the differences:
VF magnification: '56 = 0.91x, '03 = 0.58x/0.72x/0.85x.
Counter dial: '56 = manually set, '03 = automatically set.
Wind-on: '56 = double stroke, '03 = single stroke.
Besides, there are minor design differences regarding ears for strap rings, flash sync contacts etc.
However, the '03 MP was clearly designed with regard to its brass gears (versus the M7 steel gears), looks of levers and contacts and such, with the intention of resembling the '56 MP. At least, that´s how it looks to me.

Somebody correct me if I´m wrong.
 
zerobuttons said:
Is he known to drive a four-wheeled vehicle with body made from aluminium, from time to time?

To the OP - here are the differences:
VF magnification: '56 = 0.91x, '03 = 0.58x/0.72x/0.85x.
Counter dial: '56 = manually set, '03 = automatically set.
Wind-on: '56 = double stroke, '03 = single stroke.
Besides, there are minor design differences regarding ears for strap rings, flash sync contacts etc.
However, the '03 MP was clearly designed with regard to its brass gears (versus the M7 steel gears), looks of levers and contacts and such, with the intention of resembling the '56 MP. At least, that´s how it looks to me.

Somebody correct me if I´m wrong.
Click to expand...

Nah, must be thinking of someone else...

One other point is that although the MP had an M2-style counter, I'm pretty sure it was an M3-style finder, with no 35mm frame. At 0,91x it would have to be.

Then of course there's the motorized MP-2 (15-off, 1959).

Cheers,

R.
 
There were only about 400 original MP's made in 1957. From the factory they came with the M3 finder - but a fair amount of them had the winder converted to M2 once that become available.
The gear train was case hardened steel - very rough to operate - took 1000's of rolls to make it smooth! They came with the original Leicavit MP. The majority of them were chrome - but around 160 were black paint.
I worked with three of them in early 60's - good, sturdy cameras - but the M3 finder was a hassle as I liked 35's ( and still do). The Leicavit MP's had a tendency to "stretch" the chain in it and then you had to double stroke it.
They have become a bit like the Holy Grail for M-collectors and bring huge money on the market ($25000+). The new MP is far more pleasant to use - much smoother out of the box.
I think it was Jim Lager who said "Out of the 418 MP's made - at least 800 are fakes!". If you are buying one - check the provenance - they are reasonably easy to fake - and fake to the point that it takes and expert to tell them apart.
 
Roger Hicks said:
.....
I'm pretty sure it was an M3-style finder, with no 35mm frame. At 0,91x it would have to be.
....
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I have to admit that I haven´t actually held a '56 MP. Jonathan Eastland says 50mm, 90mm and 135mm framelines on this model. He´s also the one I´m quoting about the viewfinder magnification. Everyone can have bad day, but this is from a late edition of his Leica M Compendium, so it ought to have been corrected, if not right.
He also says some were modified to single-stroke wind-on, which brings further confusion into the specs listing.....
 
zerobuttons said:
However, the '03 MP was clearly designed with regard to its brass gears (versus the M7 steel gears),
Click to expand...

Interesting, I thought the gears of the new MP (2003) are also made from steel but in a different production method to keep film-advance smooth. Made from steel because the Leica M-motor (or Leicavit) can be used.
 
maddoc said:
Interesting, I thought the gears of the new MP (2003) are also made from steel but in a different production method to keep film-advance smooth. Made from steel because the Leica M-motor (or Leicavit) can be used.
Click to expand...
Your comment made me look for something actually confirming the '03 MP has a brass gear-train. I was unable to find that. In my last post I assumed that some posters in these fora and elsewhere claiming that the '03 MP has a brass gear-train and some even warning against using the M motor with this model, were right. It seems to me now that this is probably anecdotal.
Nevertheless: I know for a fact that the wind-on mechanism in my own '03 MP is wonderfully smooth......
 
Unfortunately there's no mention of the inner gears in the introductory article or the interview with Stefan Daniel that accompanies it (Leica Fotografie 2/2003). Presumably because the gears are the same as those in the M7.
payasam said:
I never did understand why Leitz/Leica chose to give it the same model designation.
Click to expand...
Here's the full text of the explanation offered by Stefan Daniel (Leica Fotografie, 2/2003 p. 35) and © LFI 2003:

"True, the former MP model is at the back of it all, but remember this was the professional version of the M3, and there was also the Leicavit, an accessory once again available. Moreover the 'Ur-MP' posessed the professional connotations of a camera that is literally indestructible. We thought this was all highly valid for the new camera. Furthermore we did not want any digits behind the initials. It is not a better M7, no longer an M6 and certainly not any kind of M8 - so that's why we just called it 'MP'. At the time, we ran through the whole alphabet. But finally MP struck the best. You could interpret it with 'Mechanics in Perfection'."
 
The current MP seems to be more of a luxurious M6 than a distant relative to the original MP.I wish someone,Tom?,could come up with a better design for the battery cover.
 
Tom A said:
I think it was Jim Lager who said "Out of the 418 MP's made - at least 800 are fakes!". If you are buying one - check the provenance - they are reasonably easy to fake - and fake to the point that it takes and expert to tell them apart.
Click to expand...

hmm...i'm guessing they graft the right side of an m2 top plate onto the left side of the m3, right? the more tantalizing prospect would be to graft the right side of an m3 onto the left side of the m2, for the automatic frame counter. any counterfeiters out there who can help me out? 😉
 
zerobuttons said:
I´m getting curious here - how many shelf meters have you got of LFI magazines.....? 😀
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Actually I don't have that many, the last two years plus one or two extras (including 2/2003) and a small number from the 60's and 70's. Maybe about 40 altogether. I'm canceling my subscription as it's all about digital now and I have no interest in Leica digital.
 
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