nico
Well-known
gret photos (I remember also another nice couple of your photos shot at the lake using the Heliar 12) ... please Rob, next time you'll be in Lucca bring the Heliar 12 with you, I'd like to try it! thanks a lot
ciao
gdi
Veteran
If anyone is interested, here is a demonstration of the FOV of 12mm, 15mm, 21mm, and 50mm. I think my finger is in the way with the 12!
This slideshow may help too:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/69104028@N00/sets/72157624294544107/show/
This slideshow may help too:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/69104028@N00/sets/72157624294544107/show/
Pirate
Guitar playing Fotografer
Thanks for that demonstration, it's great to actually see the difference like that. The 12 does look like a little much, the 15 being as far as I can see wanting to go with a wide angle.
gdi
Veteran
The 15 is really wide too - is only 12 that makes it look kinda "normal"! Both are super lenses for the price.
raid
Dad Photographer
I have never used a 12mm or 15mm lens, but have used with SLR a 7.5mm and a 17mm lens. With RF cameras, I am using mainly the 21mm and 25mm lenses as my extreme wide angle lenses. For me, this is wide enough without getting too extreme.
ferider
Veteran
I used to use the 15 regulary on film. Quite addictive ....
But these days I look at my and other people's photos with super-wides and rarely find one that wouldn't have better been taken with a longer lens.
Super-wides are great for lens tests Perspective distortion is too strong for people shots, and rarely is the close foreground available to take a meaningful photo.
But these days I look at my and other people's photos with super-wides and rarely find one that wouldn't have better been taken with a longer lens.
Super-wides are great for lens tests
Perspective distortion is too strong for people shots, and rarely is the close foreground available to take a meaningful photo.
cosmonaut
Well-known
Yep. I have the 15mm. If you get it, be careful not to take pictures of your toes.LOL.
Keeping my shadow out of the shot is also a pain, but I highly recommend it.
Keeping my shadow out of the shot is also a pain, but I highly recommend it.
raid
Dad Photographer
I used to use the 15 regulary on film. Quite addictive ....
But these days I look at my and other people's photos with super-wides and rarely find one that wouldn't have better been taken with a longer lens.
Super-wides are great for lens tests
I agree with you, Roland. When I review my photos, I prefer the 50mm and longer lens images. A 35mm lens can be wide enough in many cases for a wide angle lens. The 21mm-25mm range is also acceptable for many cases, but I prefer the classic 50mm look. The 75mm-105mm range is great for certain cases.
I've found the 15 difficult to use well on a film/FF camera. Even on the M8 I mostly use it to document projects in tight quarters, such as a bathroom remodel.
But it IS great I think for travel, when you're really squeezed or want to get in that whole cathedral dome, etc. When we traveled a few years ago to southern Spain (Málaga, Seville, Granada) and Tangiers, I had the 15 and 25 on a Bessa L, and a CLE with 40 Rokkor and 90 Elmarit. The 25 turned out to be the most useful lens for me, followed by the 40, then the 15 not so often used but essential nonetheless, and the 90 was used only once and might well have been left at home.
So, my suggestion is don't forget "Mr. In Between", and take a 25 or 28mm along, as it could turn out very useful.
But it IS great I think for travel, when you're really squeezed or want to get in that whole cathedral dome, etc. When we traveled a few years ago to southern Spain (Málaga, Seville, Granada) and Tangiers, I had the 15 and 25 on a Bessa L, and a CLE with 40 Rokkor and 90 Elmarit. The 25 turned out to be the most useful lens for me, followed by the 40, then the 15 not so often used but essential nonetheless, and the 90 was used only once and might well have been left at home.
So, my suggestion is don't forget "Mr. In Between", and take a 25 or 28mm along, as it could turn out very useful.
Frontman
Well-known
The 15mm is a great lens, and you really can't beat it's price. I have the LTM version which I use on my M4. The lens is about the same size as a 35mm Summaron, and I can easily carry the M4 with the 15mm attached in my pocket.
Before getting the 15, I shot a lot with a couple different 20mm lenses. For the tight alleyways and tall buildings I found that something wider than a 20mm would actually be useful for me. The 15mm is now the favorite wide angle lens in my collection.
One thing to remember about the 15mm LTM, make sure that it is properly indexed when attached to your camera. Mine was a few degrees off when using a Voigtlander M adapter, which resulted in quite a few messed up pictures.
Before getting the 15, I shot a lot with a couple different 20mm lenses. For the tight alleyways and tall buildings I found that something wider than a 20mm would actually be useful for me. The 15mm is now the favorite wide angle lens in my collection.
One thing to remember about the 15mm LTM, make sure that it is properly indexed when attached to your camera. Mine was a few degrees off when using a Voigtlander M adapter, which resulted in quite a few messed up pictures.
gdi
Veteran
I used to use the 15 regulary on film. Quite addictive ....
But these days I look at my and other people's photos with super-wides and rarely find one that wouldn't have better been taken with a longer lens.
Super-wides are great for lens tests
When I look at other people's shots, I often find it would have been better had it been taken of a different subject!
Obviously the super wides aren't for most shots. I think I get better wide shots with B&W film than digital - probably due to the extra DR.
Anyway, I think some of us focused on the OP's title question of 12 or 15 (at least I did - it was timely for me). He does mention the 28 as a possibility as well. If I had only a 50 and wanted to expand my options, I would go with a 35. Later I would consider a 28 or wider.
icebear
Veteran
This is one recent shot with the 5.6/12 on an M6 :
You have to be careful with your feet though or they'll be in the frame.
You have to be careful with your feet though or they'll be in the frame
.
icebear
Veteran
And here's another one (reflection of Rockefeller Center, NYC): Try to catch that FOV with any other lens :
InkWalk
Newbie
I have almost the same issue for coming trip to Paris.
Currently, my widest RF lens is ZM 21mm f4.5, but this time, it will be used on an M8.2 which the crop rate is 1.33. That makes me consider a wider one like 12mm or 15mm.
To me, 15mm seems a bit too close to 21mm and make no big difference. The LTM version is extremely cheap and small, but I will still need to buy an extra 18 or 21 or 15-35 VF for M8.2.
Since a VF is a "must buy", the 15-35 might be a better choice because its 28 frame line for my ZM 21 ( As you know, M8.2's VF is kinda a pain in the neck for people who wear glasses when using 21mm lens ), and its 15 frame line for CV 12 which I'm also considering.
So far I prefer to buy CV 12/5.6 II along with 15-35 VF though they're huge( compare with 15mm ones ) and way too ugly. Before I click "buy it now", I'm really glad to have your opinions. Tks. in advance.
Currently, my widest RF lens is ZM 21mm f4.5, but this time, it will be used on an M8.2 which the crop rate is 1.33. That makes me consider a wider one like 12mm or 15mm.
To me, 15mm seems a bit too close to 21mm and make no big difference. The LTM version is extremely cheap and small, but I will still need to buy an extra 18 or 21 or 15-35 VF for M8.2.
Since a VF is a "must buy", the 15-35 might be a better choice because its 28 frame line for my ZM 21 ( As you know, M8.2's VF is kinda a pain in the neck for people who wear glasses when using 21mm lens ), and its 15 frame line for CV 12 which I'm also considering.
So far I prefer to buy CV 12/5.6 II along with 15-35 VF though they're huge( compare with 15mm ones ) and way too ugly. Before I click "buy it now", I'm really glad to have your opinions. Tks. in advance.
Tim Gray
Well-known
I think the 15mm is a great match with a 28 and a 50. That's what I use. The 12 is just a bit too wide for me.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Why, yes. Yes, I am.
fotomeow
name under my name
When I first got the 15mm, I really underutilized it; and went more with my next widest, a 28mm, to good effect.
be indispensible for a few reasons: 1) I can use it as a 15mm on my M6, and as a 23mm on my RD-1s, thereby producing more focal lengths with 2 cameras (I've been using the film M6 and dig RD-1s side by side in my bag); 2) the 15mm on FF has given me shots I never otherwise would have gotten, not only in tight quarters, but especially when travelling in foreign countries. THE 15 is so wide, the "subject", usually a person, will be in the frame WIThOUT them knowing it, so I get a more natural looking subject; and 3) the "fun" factor of a superwide is too hard to give up, not only by me, but my friends/family who view the photos.
The main drawback for me has been that the metering tends to underexpose, to a horrid degree on my M6. If I have the time, I end up metering with a longer lens, then put on the 15mm for proper exposure.
be indispensible for a few reasons: 1) I can use it as a 15mm on my M6, and as a 23mm on my RD-1s, thereby producing more focal lengths with 2 cameras (I've been using the film M6 and dig RD-1s side by side in my bag); 2) the 15mm on FF has given me shots I never otherwise would have gotten, not only in tight quarters, but especially when travelling in foreign countries. THE 15 is so wide, the "subject", usually a person, will be in the frame WIThOUT them knowing it, so I get a more natural looking subject; and 3) the "fun" factor of a superwide is too hard to give up, not only by me, but my friends/family who view the photos.
The main drawback for me has been that the metering tends to underexpose, to a horrid degree on my M6. If I have the time, I end up metering with a longer lens, then put on the 15mm for proper exposure.
Nikkor AIS
Nikkor AIS
I love the little Voigtlander 15 4.5 ASPH on Leica M cameras. It's just a great little lens with almost nothing but upside. The finder is small and accurate enough if you learn how to position your eye relative to the viewfinder. With experience, it's quite easy to predict what you're going to get in the frame. I gain confidence with the 15 mm lens the more I use it.
I would love to add the Voigtlander 12 mm to my Leica bag at some point down the road. To me, extreme wide angles are a very exciting and challenging way to see the world.
Check out the Voigtlander 15 4.5 ASPH thread in the Images section of the Voigtlander Cosina section.
Gregory
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