JHenry
Established
Fellow RFFers.
Let me start by saying this is not a "What should I buy" thread.
I am contemplating getting a medium format system. I shoot lots with my Leica and related gear, and shoot a fair amount of Large Format as well. But, now living in New Zealand, where long hikes are everywhere, I'd like to get a system that offers good image quality without the need to carry all the LF gear on multiday hikes.
The kicker is that I also want a system that I can travel with, and use in a street setting when I want to (though I anticipate this will primarily remain the realm of my Leica gear).
The Mamiya 7/7ii looks to be a great system. However, I'm wondering also about a Hasselblad 500 or 200 series. (yeah, I know it's not a RF, but readers here are well versed). What appeals to me about the Hassey system is the SLR aspect, being able to do macro, more lens choices, and ability to travel with a couple of backs with B&W and color, etc. Thinking logically, I already have 35mm RF gear, and adding a SLR medium format setup might present more opportunities, where as a MF rangefinder will just present a larger negative.
Has anybody out there used both a Mamiya 7/7ii and a Hasselblad system with the 45 or 90 degree viewfinder? Have you had success using a Hasselblad in street photography settings, or is the camera too slow to operate on the street? For those who have used both, do you still own both systems or did you decide on one over the other; and why?
What I'm looking for are actual user impressions of the two systems and how they compare in use.
Appreciate your feedback and input.
Cheers,
Jeff
Let me start by saying this is not a "What should I buy" thread.
I am contemplating getting a medium format system. I shoot lots with my Leica and related gear, and shoot a fair amount of Large Format as well. But, now living in New Zealand, where long hikes are everywhere, I'd like to get a system that offers good image quality without the need to carry all the LF gear on multiday hikes.
The kicker is that I also want a system that I can travel with, and use in a street setting when I want to (though I anticipate this will primarily remain the realm of my Leica gear).
The Mamiya 7/7ii looks to be a great system. However, I'm wondering also about a Hasselblad 500 or 200 series. (yeah, I know it's not a RF, but readers here are well versed). What appeals to me about the Hassey system is the SLR aspect, being able to do macro, more lens choices, and ability to travel with a couple of backs with B&W and color, etc. Thinking logically, I already have 35mm RF gear, and adding a SLR medium format setup might present more opportunities, where as a MF rangefinder will just present a larger negative.
Has anybody out there used both a Mamiya 7/7ii and a Hasselblad system with the 45 or 90 degree viewfinder? Have you had success using a Hasselblad in street photography settings, or is the camera too slow to operate on the street? For those who have used both, do you still own both systems or did you decide on one over the other; and why?
What I'm looking for are actual user impressions of the two systems and how they compare in use.
Appreciate your feedback and input.
Cheers,
Jeff
raytoei@gmail.com
Veteran
JHenry,
I was looking for a medium format quality but wanted something light. I settled on the GA645, which gives a 60mm lens (or aprox 38 in 135 format terms). It is autofocused or scale focused but suited me fine.
the quality is more plasticky than the Mamiya 7 but I believe it has a smaller form factor.
here is a sample photo i took 2 months ago.
http://retro.ms11.net/fire.jpg
I was looking for a medium format quality but wanted something light. I settled on the GA645, which gives a 60mm lens (or aprox 38 in 135 format terms). It is autofocused or scale focused but suited me fine.
the quality is more plasticky than the Mamiya 7 but I believe it has a smaller form factor.
here is a sample photo i took 2 months ago.
http://retro.ms11.net/fire.jpg
Bob Michaels
nobody special
I have a Mamiya 7 and a Bronica SQA (similar size & functionality to a Hassleblad). I have used the Bronica in fast moving found environmental portrait situations. Not quite "street" but close. No problems there with the Bronica but the Mamiya 7 is better for most of what I shoot. But, I believe everyone needs to own one SLR for macro and things like that. So the Bronica SQA is my only SLR.
Oh, I have the WLF, the 90 degree and 45 degree prism finders for the Bronica. The 45 degree prism gets used almost 100% of the time.
FrozenInTime
Well-known
Don't have a Mamiya 6/7 but use Leica RF and Hasselblad SWC/203/501.
Hasselblad is nice for tramping , it's compact, not too heavy and robust IF you stick to a single lens and WLF.
I would be happy carrying my 501c with 60 CF or a SWC on the easier multi-day walks I've done like the Routeburn or Kepler.
However, add in a prism and spare back and I would start to become less comfortable.
Around town, even a minimalist body,WLF, single back plus two lens combo e.g. 50/100, starts to get obviously heavy after a long day in a shoulder bag.
I've often carried my 501 on it's shoulder strap while wearing a pack - it sits well and does not bounce around while walking.
This was one of the biggest reasons why I chose the Hassy for hill walking - I prefer it , in that situation, over a Leica M.
However a 500 camera with a prism does not hang as nicely on the shoulder as with a WLF.
The point of balance changes and the prism also sticks out and bumps into things. Learn to love the WLF.
A 203 is a bit heavier and carries better with the prism. I never take my 203 into the hills.
Hasselblad is nice for tramping , it's compact, not too heavy and robust IF you stick to a single lens and WLF.
I would be happy carrying my 501c with 60 CF or a SWC on the easier multi-day walks I've done like the Routeburn or Kepler.
However, add in a prism and spare back and I would start to become less comfortable.
Around town, even a minimalist body,WLF, single back plus two lens combo e.g. 50/100, starts to get obviously heavy after a long day in a shoulder bag.
I've often carried my 501 on it's shoulder strap while wearing a pack - it sits well and does not bounce around while walking.
This was one of the biggest reasons why I chose the Hassy for hill walking - I prefer it , in that situation, over a Leica M.
However a 500 camera with a prism does not hang as nicely on the shoulder as with a WLF.
The point of balance changes and the prism also sticks out and bumps into things. Learn to love the WLF.
A 203 is a bit heavier and carries better with the prism. I never take my 203 into the hills.
sykotec
Well-known
Just restating a couple points already mentioned.....
A friend has a Mamiya 7II - I'd roughly compare it with my Pentax 67II for as a general carry-around rig. Mamiya is lighter (half a ton), but the Pentax carries great in the hand withe the optional wood-handled grip. Neither is great - or even good - on a strap for long at all. The Hasselblad 500cm I sold to fund the Pentax, that'sd another story. As already mentioned, it carries great hanging from the wide Hasselblad strap. With the WLF, 80mm, and a single back, I can honestly say it was the best walk-around camera I've had - from the perspective of literally walking around with the thing hanging over a shoulder. Digisix in the pocket, maybe a spare roll of film or two in another, and you're set.
As for street/action shots, I didn't have too much luck. Fortunately for my, other than our dog, I like pictures of things that don't move so much. The EV system for setting exposure is EXCELLENT, especially coupled with a meter like the Digisix, but I don't get along too well with inverted finders, and found the focus throw much too long/too slow to deal with. The 67II on the other hand, it handles like a HUGE version of my old Nikon F3P, but with slower glass. Gotta admit though, while it's my latest choice in MF, I don't think it sounds like it would fit your purpose, so my 'vote' would be a Hassy 500 series.
A friend has a Mamiya 7II - I'd roughly compare it with my Pentax 67II for as a general carry-around rig. Mamiya is lighter (half a ton), but the Pentax carries great in the hand withe the optional wood-handled grip. Neither is great - or even good - on a strap for long at all. The Hasselblad 500cm I sold to fund the Pentax, that'sd another story. As already mentioned, it carries great hanging from the wide Hasselblad strap. With the WLF, 80mm, and a single back, I can honestly say it was the best walk-around camera I've had - from the perspective of literally walking around with the thing hanging over a shoulder. Digisix in the pocket, maybe a spare roll of film or two in another, and you're set.
As for street/action shots, I didn't have too much luck. Fortunately for my, other than our dog, I like pictures of things that don't move so much. The EV system for setting exposure is EXCELLENT, especially coupled with a meter like the Digisix, but I don't get along too well with inverted finders, and found the focus throw much too long/too slow to deal with. The 67II on the other hand, it handles like a HUGE version of my old Nikon F3P, but with slower glass. Gotta admit though, while it's my latest choice in MF, I don't think it sounds like it would fit your purpose, so my 'vote' would be a Hassy 500 series.
Brian Legge
Veteran
So my equivalent is a Bronica SQA and a Zenobia (645 folder). No where near the same league, but from a usage standpoint..
The Bronica is large enough that I usually take the Zenobia or a TLR if I'm going to be walking around for a while, particularly if I'm taking multiple cameras. I can fit either of those in a small camera bag with a rangefinder easily. The Bronica with a 80mm lens and WLF is too big for the bag on its own.
Now that I have a 50mm lens for it, I find myself drawn to the Bronica more. That obviously wouldn't be an issue with the Mamiya 7. Definitely try to handle each camera (and put it in a bag you expect to carry around) if you have a chance before making a decision.
The Bronica is large enough that I usually take the Zenobia or a TLR if I'm going to be walking around for a while, particularly if I'm taking multiple cameras. I can fit either of those in a small camera bag with a rangefinder easily. The Bronica with a 80mm lens and WLF is too big for the bag on its own.
Now that I have a 50mm lens for it, I find myself drawn to the Bronica more. That obviously wouldn't be an issue with the Mamiya 7. Definitely try to handle each camera (and put it in a bag you expect to carry around) if you have a chance before making a decision.
Steve M.
Veteran
The Hassy handles very well on the street, but it's heavy and awkward on a shoulder strap. Using the prism was my preferred way to shoot it. If you plan on carrying one of these w/ maybe an extra lens and a back or two, you're talking about hauling some serious weight.
I never got on w/ my Mamiya 7II. Didn't like the plasticy feel to it, and much preferred the lenses on the German cameras. Mine was constantly getting it's rangefinder knocked out at the slightest jar too.
I sold them both and went back to my Rolleiflex TLR, sometimes w/ a prism and sometimes w/ the WLF. A TLR is just so much lighter and easier to carry, and you honestly can't beat the lenses on the top Rolleiflex models.
I never got on w/ my Mamiya 7II. Didn't like the plasticy feel to it, and much preferred the lenses on the German cameras. Mine was constantly getting it's rangefinder knocked out at the slightest jar too.
I sold them both and went back to my Rolleiflex TLR, sometimes w/ a prism and sometimes w/ the WLF. A TLR is just so much lighter and easier to carry, and you honestly can't beat the lenses on the top Rolleiflex models.
Turtle
Veteran
IMHO the Mamiya 7 is LIGHT YEARS ahead of any 6x6 SLR for portability and handling. For hiking and street, I would consider nothing else. I too shoot Leica M and Mamiya 7 and have owned several 6x6 and 6x7 SLRs. No context at all... nowhere close for street usage or landscape work where weight matters. The only downside I see with the Mamiya 7 is graduated filters and polarisers need some thought. I only shoot B&W. If you are used to shooting with a RF VF you will find you can work with the M and Mammiya together seamlessly.
If you want to be able to shoot in a studio, portraits, macro etc the SLR is the way to go. If its regulat landscape work and you will appreciate afew KGs less kit in your pack, the Mamiya make infinitely more sense.
PS the some people comment on the Mamiya 7 being plasticky and it is, but it has a metal chassis underneath. Not many people report having actually broken theirs.... thats all that counts. If the RF is knocked out a little, then you hardly need worry about this for landscape work.
If you want to be able to shoot in a studio, portraits, macro etc the SLR is the way to go. If its regulat landscape work and you will appreciate afew KGs less kit in your pack, the Mamiya make infinitely more sense.
PS the some people comment on the Mamiya 7 being plasticky and it is, but it has a metal chassis underneath. Not many people report having actually broken theirs.... thats all that counts. If the RF is knocked out a little, then you hardly need worry about this for landscape work.
deirdre
Well-known
If you want to go 6x6, why not a Mamiya 6? Biggest downside is only three lenses, but that's kind of an upside, too.
Agreed. There's no comparison. The Mamiya is waaaaay faster to shoot with.
ChrisN
Striving
For urban shooting with the Hasselblad, the best approach is to set a trap, then wait for the subject. Sit down somewhere, and prefocus the lens and set the exposure (just like with your Leica). After you have been sitting for a while with the camera in your lap, staring at the screen (use the waist-level finder), people around you soon lose interest in you and just go about their business. And by not raising a camera to your face, most people will be unaware that a photo is taken, even with the loud mirror slap.
JHenry
Established
Thanks for the responses so far. As always, it's great to hear the opinions of others.
Posts so far seem to confirm what I suspected and expected: the Mamiya 7 is the way to go. But, never having used a Hasselblad, and unqualified to render judgement on how it would work in a street setting, I wanted to ask.
While the Hasselblad might add an extra dimension to my photography--square format, WLF, etc--sounds like the drawbacks outweigh the benefits. Given that I want to use the MF system for landscape, street, and travel photography, all the points that you've made about the benefits of Mamiya ring loud and clear.
Additional comments and opinions welcome.
Thanks much.
Jeff
Posts so far seem to confirm what I suspected and expected: the Mamiya 7 is the way to go. But, never having used a Hasselblad, and unqualified to render judgement on how it would work in a street setting, I wanted to ask.
While the Hasselblad might add an extra dimension to my photography--square format, WLF, etc--sounds like the drawbacks outweigh the benefits. Given that I want to use the MF system for landscape, street, and travel photography, all the points that you've made about the benefits of Mamiya ring loud and clear.
Additional comments and opinions welcome.
Thanks much.
Jeff
FrankHarries
Well-known
Well, one aditional comment from me, using Hasselblad and Mamiya 6 - its hard to tell, which suits needs better. Here are my experiences:
1) When I am up to street Photography with MF, I ALLWAYS use the Mamiya, the Hassi is too heavy, it takes too long for spontaneous shots, even with a prism you have to set the readings.
2) When I want to shoot COLOUR and B&W, I take the Hasselblad with different backs, also when I am in nature and have the time to figure out the right exposure - then I can use the zone-system for b&w, having four backs, one for colour, three with b&w film, using the for N-1, N, and N+1 development.
I think you should decide, what you do more - sponaneous street or contemplorary other shooting. And I would suggest thinking about the Mamiya 6 - I don't like to change viewfinders when swithing to another lens withe the M7
1) When I am up to street Photography with MF, I ALLWAYS use the Mamiya, the Hassi is too heavy, it takes too long for spontaneous shots, even with a prism you have to set the readings.
2) When I want to shoot COLOUR and B&W, I take the Hasselblad with different backs, also when I am in nature and have the time to figure out the right exposure - then I can use the zone-system for b&w, having four backs, one for colour, three with b&w film, using the for N-1, N, and N+1 development.
I think you should decide, what you do more - sponaneous street or contemplorary other shooting. And I would suggest thinking about the Mamiya 6 - I don't like to change viewfinders when swithing to another lens withe the M7
maddoc
... likes film again.
If you need accurate framing, versatility only second to LF and don`t mind carrying a sturdy tripod then the Hassy is a good choice. The Mamiya 7ii on the other hand is a fast street shooting machine, like a Zeiss Ikon on steroids (large negative !!) and very good with the excellent 45mm lens. Lowest versatility but very good picture quality (portraits !) and hand-held capability down to 1/15s can also be achieved using a Rolleiflex or similar TLR.
thegman
Veteran
I would entirely agree with this, I use a Mamiya 7 and ZI and they work very similarly indeed. The ZI is far prettier of course, and the Mamiya is a bit plasticky and a little ugly.
I think if you've got street shooting covered with Leica though, then maybe for more composed landscapes and "take your time" photography, a Hasselblad may be better. I'd consider trading the Mamiya for a 'blad if I were to start doing more nature stuff I think.
Mzungu
-
I have used Mamiya RB67 and since a year ago I turned to Mamiya 7 system. I also travel a lot, do hikes, street photography, I cannot consider to use a hasselblad 500 or another RB67 for my shots, the weight is too much, its slow for street photography, no metering.. Mamiya 7 is great, light, metered, lens quality is excellent.
I've lived in Zea Newland (QT) as well, dont forget a rain cover if you go for the slow hassie
good luck
I've lived in Zea Newland (QT) as well, dont forget a rain cover if you go for the slow hassie
good luck
Debusti Paolo
Well-known
for hiking i think you should buy a bronica rf645 kit with flash:16 exp per roll,120 & 220 film great auto flash,great meter(even with slides),better VF than leica m.for wides I've got a 903swc
Debusti Paolo
Well-known
I forgot ...also a canon g12/g11 or g10 will be a must as a back up camera..
GoodOldNorm
Member
Tough Choice
Tough Choice
It all depends how fit you are and how far/steep your walk will be. I do some serious hiking and a medium format camera will only go in my back if I think I can carry the weight without making sacrifices. I weigh every item before it goes in my sack.The best lens/camera case is a plastic bag wrapped in an item of spare clothing. I always ask myself, what is the most important to me, the photographs or the walk? If I am not planning on making big enlargements 35mm will give me acceptable photographs. I carry a contax G1 with 2 lenses when in the mountains,( light weight and quality lenses). Your 35mm gear will suit most situations, carrying a medium format camera is like having a house brick in your rucksack and they are time consuming to take out and make a photograph. I carry my G1 on a belt either attatched to my waist or chest, it can be whipped out and a photo taken at speed without slowing down. A heavy duty gorilla pod can also be used to mount the lightweight camera, far easier to carry than a tripod. When I go walking with a friend/ friends I always ask them if they will carry some of my personal stuff so that I can take extra camera gear (if the hassy is to be taken). I give them their choice of photographs taken on the hike, fair exchange is no robbery.
Tough Choice
It all depends how fit you are and how far/steep your walk will be. I do some serious hiking and a medium format camera will only go in my back if I think I can carry the weight without making sacrifices. I weigh every item before it goes in my sack.The best lens/camera case is a plastic bag wrapped in an item of spare clothing. I always ask myself, what is the most important to me, the photographs or the walk? If I am not planning on making big enlargements 35mm will give me acceptable photographs. I carry a contax G1 with 2 lenses when in the mountains,( light weight and quality lenses). Your 35mm gear will suit most situations, carrying a medium format camera is like having a house brick in your rucksack and they are time consuming to take out and make a photograph. I carry my G1 on a belt either attatched to my waist or chest, it can be whipped out and a photo taken at speed without slowing down. A heavy duty gorilla pod can also be used to mount the lightweight camera, far easier to carry than a tripod. When I go walking with a friend/ friends I always ask them if they will carry some of my personal stuff so that I can take extra camera gear (if the hassy is to be taken). I give them their choice of photographs taken on the hike, fair exchange is no robbery.
Matus
Well-known
I would say that it comes down to whether you want to use long lenses (+200mm) which you get with SLR but not RF and whether you want to use graduated filters which are hard to use with RF.
I have been to New Zealand (3 weeks in a camper van, best trip of my life) and used 3 different formats (Olympus XA, Rolleiflex T and Tachihara 4x5, but no multi day hikes though ). And I actually used the 400 mm on 4x5 rather often - (like 200 mm on 6x4.5). Should I be going again I would probably leave the 4x5 at home and take my Mamiya 6 and possibly a 645 SLR, but the SLR would stay in a hotel should I go for multi-day hikes.
Just a side note: If you plan to take a tripod than it should me easy to make a few panoramic images stitching a few 6x6 frames together.
I have been to New Zealand (3 weeks in a camper van, best trip of my life) and used 3 different formats (Olympus XA, Rolleiflex T and Tachihara 4x5, but no multi day hikes though
). And I actually used the 400 mm on 4x5 rather often - (like 200 mm on 6x4.5). Should I be going again I would probably leave the 4x5 at home and take my Mamiya 6 and possibly a 645 SLR, but the SLR would stay in a hotel should I go for multi-day hikes.Just a side note: If you plan to take a tripod than it should me easy to make a few panoramic images stitching a few 6x6 frames together.