jsrockit
Moderator
3200 on the X1 is completely usable... that's big IMO.
Redesigned X1
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sepiareverb
genius and moron
Agreed- I can't believe what this camera does at 1600.
__--
Well-known
Actually, the GXR/A12 50mm-e is great at both ISO 1600 and 3200, and the new firmware upgrade, which I haven't yet had a chance to try, makes AF much faster than before. Am also looking forward to getting the new A12/28mm-e camera unit. The pictures below were processed with Aperture, Viveza and Colof Efex/Film Effects, which added some grain.
Bangkok | Ricoh GXR/A12 | 50mm EFOV | ISO 1600 | f/2.5 | 1/320 sec
Pak Nam Pran | Ricoh GXR/A12 | 50mm EFOV | ISO 1600 | f/6.3 | 1/80sec
Bangkok | Ricoh GXR/A12 | 50mm EFOV | ISO 1600 | f/4.0 | 1/125 sec
Pak Nam Pran |Ricoh GXR/12 | 50mm EFOV | ISO 3200 | F/4 | 1/160 sec
Pak Nam Pran | Ricoh GXR/12 | 50mm EFOV | ISO 3200 | F/3.5 | 1/350 sec
—Mitch/Potomac, MD
Paris au rythme de Basquiat
Bangkok | Ricoh GXR/A12 | 50mm EFOV | ISO 1600 | f/2.5 | 1/320 sec
Pak Nam Pran | Ricoh GXR/A12 | 50mm EFOV | ISO 1600 | f/6.3 | 1/80sec
Bangkok | Ricoh GXR/A12 | 50mm EFOV | ISO 1600 | f/4.0 | 1/125 sec
Pak Nam Pran |Ricoh GXR/12 | 50mm EFOV | ISO 3200 | F/4 | 1/160 sec
Pak Nam Pran | Ricoh GXR/12 | 50mm EFOV | ISO 3200 | F/3.5 | 1/350 sec
—Mitch/Potomac, MD
Paris au rythme de Basquiat
jsrockit
Moderator
Ok, but why post this in an X1 thread? I'm so sick of camera battles...
__--
Well-known
Not a camera battle at all. The GXR seems to get a little attention and, it seems to me, that the low light capabilities of these cameras are interesting. Alsoi, I made no comparison — I've never shot with the X1 — but only submitted a data point.
—Mitch/Potomac, MD
Paris au rythme de Basquiat
—Mitch/Potomac, MD
Paris au rythme de Basquiat
bwcolor
Veteran
I take it that the purpose of this thread was an effort to find some improvement over the present X1. I also didn't purchase one because I wanted more than it had to offer. It seems that discussion of other cameras within this thread serves a useful purpose for those not insisting on an X1, or for that matter, a Leica. This is a shopping thread and the GXR, X100 and the like are in the mix. I believe that there was hope that the black X1 was a mislabeled X2, which it is not.
jsrockit
Moderator
Hmmm... I must be reading something different, because I thought the purpose of the thread was the aforementioned question from the OP.
I guess I'm just sick of every X1 thread turning into a camera battle. I understand, based on its slow AF and large price tag, that it is a polarizing camera. But still...
To me, all of these cameras are good and they all have their faults.
stephen.w
Established
The Leica press release states that the new firmware will be out by the end of the year and will include a new 'hyperfocal module'. If the camera lets me accurately set the focusing distance beyond two metres and can give me an indication of the depth of field at that distance, the X1 is whole new camera.
stephen.w
Established
But the GXR wasn't even being discussed. If you aren't making a comparison then why did you bring it up in this thread?
dogberryjr
[Pithy phrase]
Oh, that would be a useful function!
(Awaiting first person to come in a call the X1 a $1900 P&S. Shouldn't be long. 😉 )
jsrockit
Moderator
I agree. I already like it a lot... and this will just make it much better. However, I'm not getting my hopes up.
kbg32
neo-romanticist
jsrockit
Moderator
P&S cameras do not have their focus on manual modes (shutter speed / aperture dials) like the X1 does... P&S cameras bury this stuff or don't give you the option in the first place.
bwcolor
Veteran
You seem to be a bit sensitive here. What you see as an attack, I see as a discussion. I don't have a dog in this supposed fight, but I do have an interest in the discussion in that I very much want to buy a small camera. I don't really care if you call it P&S (which was suggested above in jest). I find the posting of various high ISO images as useful in that this is one of the features that most interest me.
I don't think that Leica is doing itself proud hinting as to firmware upgrades that are months away from introduction. I realize that they are doing this to try to hold on to market share that they can't retain without improving the X1, but it further emphasizes to me that the X1 is not where Leica wants it to be. I commend them for not hinting as to what might be in the X2 and for trying to get the most out of the X1, but they need to put the marketing people in a bag and get the engineers to work.
Good one..
bigeye
Well-known
If price doesn't factor, the existing X1 throws very, very nice pictures. To my eye, the best of the lot. That's really all I care about it and I like it very much.
(I'd rather pay full price for what I want rather than 1/2 price for almost-the-same.)
(I'd rather pay full price for what I want rather than 1/2 price for almost-the-same.)
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Frankie
Speaking Frankly
One might be sensitive when a recently purchased, state-of-the [Leica]-art camera is found wanting...so soon. The sentiment is no different from M8/9 being discussed under less than favourable terms.
I immediately saw the X1 as a Leica equivalent of a pre-M body...just a box where lens choice is limited, RF, VF and assorted necessities might be added...Leica willing. The top deck is practically clear.
Even the X1 styling is a page from the old book.
Except time waits for no one. In about 6 month's time or sooner when there is more concrete X100 announcements, there will be a final reckoning. A fixed lens, APS-C size, rather primitive X1 under Leica's pace just won't do in the digital age.
I dare say many potential X1 buyers now would hold off a bit..."unless you must have a Leica".
More Leica empty marketing won't help.
jsrockit
Moderator
First of all, Leica never announced any firmware update... they simply told some people who asked at Photokina. Secondly, this update may never happen for all we know.
Honestly, I don't make any excuses for Leica regarding this camera. The AF is slow, the skin is peeling, etc... not very acceptable for a $2000 camera regardless of manufactuer. That said, I really love the camera... and do not regret buying it. It feels right to me, has great IQ, and is super light. If I need a fast camera, I'll use my M8.2. I have also used the Panasonic GF1, the Olympus E/P1, etc. Those cameras are too menu driven. That said, all of these cameras are great with regards to IQ, so it really comes down to people thinking the X1 is too expensive for a slow AF camera (welcome to the world of Leica). I agree... but I still don't regret the purchase. Weird huh?
As far as the X100... if Fuji delivers what they are proposing, I will buy that camera (and keep my X1 and M8.2). However, I do not see it taking away from potential X1 sales (it'll take away from panasonic and olympus if anything) since most budget minded people aren't buying the X1 anyway (it's not a bang for the buck / swiss army style camera). Plus, just because we at RFF think we like the X100 doesn't mean others (consumers) really care about a rangefinder type of camera. I think people over estimate the impact the camera will have. The X1 is a niche camera, not a mainstream camera and I believe the X100 will be too. People who like Leicas will continue to buy this camera and Leica will be fine regardless as to if the X100 is a hit.
Honestly, I don't make any excuses for Leica regarding this camera. The AF is slow, the skin is peeling, etc... not very acceptable for a $2000 camera regardless of manufactuer. That said, I really love the camera... and do not regret buying it. It feels right to me, has great IQ, and is super light. If I need a fast camera, I'll use my M8.2. I have also used the Panasonic GF1, the Olympus E/P1, etc. Those cameras are too menu driven. That said, all of these cameras are great with regards to IQ, so it really comes down to people thinking the X1 is too expensive for a slow AF camera (welcome to the world of Leica). I agree... but I still don't regret the purchase. Weird huh?
As far as the X100... if Fuji delivers what they are proposing, I will buy that camera (and keep my X1 and M8.2). However, I do not see it taking away from potential X1 sales (it'll take away from panasonic and olympus if anything) since most budget minded people aren't buying the X1 anyway (it's not a bang for the buck / swiss army style camera). Plus, just because we at RFF think we like the X100 doesn't mean others (consumers) really care about a rangefinder type of camera. I think people over estimate the impact the camera will have. The X1 is a niche camera, not a mainstream camera and I believe the X100 will be too. People who like Leicas will continue to buy this camera and Leica will be fine regardless as to if the X100 is a hit.
bigeye
Well-known
Frankie, you list 14 pages of Leica bashing. We've got it. The Great Pumpkin is coming.
DougFord
on the good foot
X1 firmware update
X1 firmware update
Manual mode in name only?
In full manual mode - set aperture, shutter speed and manual focus distance.
Press the shutter; what happens?
My understanding is that under the afore mentioned criteria that the camera still has SHUTTER lag. How can this be?
Is it opening and then closing down the aperture during the half press, or is it taking an exposure reading even though the manual parameters have already been selected?
If this behavior can’t be resolved via firmware and is caused by the hardware, then the camera is what it is and firmware updates ain’t gonna turn this sow’s ear into a silk purse.
Manual mode should mean manual mode. All shutter delays should be eliminated.
When I select the aperture setting the aperture should move into the chosen position, immediately, and remain there indefinitely until I select another setting.
The manual focus setting should move the lens into the selected position and remain there, indefinitely until I choose another distance.
Perhaps the engineers have attempted to write routines that are geared towards battery efficiency rather than photographic efficiency?
I suppose that the bottom line for me is that if a camera has a manual mode then it should operate the shutter immediately upon actuation.
You should be able to walk around with this thing all day long, set to manual parameters, and press the shutter button and expect no shutter delay.
Even if it’s at the expense of dramatically reduced battery life while in the manual mode.
X1 firmware update
Manual mode in name only?
In full manual mode - set aperture, shutter speed and manual focus distance.
Press the shutter; what happens?
My understanding is that under the afore mentioned criteria that the camera still has SHUTTER lag. How can this be?
Is it opening and then closing down the aperture during the half press, or is it taking an exposure reading even though the manual parameters have already been selected?
If this behavior can’t be resolved via firmware and is caused by the hardware, then the camera is what it is and firmware updates ain’t gonna turn this sow’s ear into a silk purse.
Manual mode should mean manual mode. All shutter delays should be eliminated.
When I select the aperture setting the aperture should move into the chosen position, immediately, and remain there indefinitely until I select another setting.
The manual focus setting should move the lens into the selected position and remain there, indefinitely until I choose another distance.
Perhaps the engineers have attempted to write routines that are geared towards battery efficiency rather than photographic efficiency?
I suppose that the bottom line for me is that if a camera has a manual mode then it should operate the shutter immediately upon actuation.
You should be able to walk around with this thing all day long, set to manual parameters, and press the shutter button and expect no shutter delay.
Even if it’s at the expense of dramatically reduced battery life while in the manual mode.
jsrockit
Moderator
Yes, that is what I believe it is doing. I just use mine for still life and anticipated action... I don't understand why people want to give themselves the headache of trying to use the camera for fast action where you cannot anticipate anything. Sure, I know we should be able to do it... but as of now, it just isn't possible. All the speed of large format in a small camera body... 😉
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