Your Opinion: Most Over-Priced Film Cameras + Most Undervalued Film Cameras?

[David Murphy]

Undervalued: The Retina IIIS rangefinder and all the commonly available DKL mount lenses that were made for it. Also, the Retina Reflex (SLR) 35mm models accepting the same DKL lenses. I am amazed at how well most of these cameras/lenses still work as well as their fine build quality.

Overvalued: Hasselblad 500 series, as some have noted above. This is a super camera, but not justifying $2000 (or more) with a prime lens and a back IMO.

 

[ranger9]

Undervalued: The Retina IIIS rangefinder and all the commonly available DKL mount lenses that were made for it. Also, the Retina Reflex (SLR) 35mm models accepting the same DKL lenses. I am amazed at how well most of these cameras/lenses still work as well as their fine build quality.

Well, they're a little fiddly to use, but some people enjoy that. And the long lenses don't focus very close. And there's that whole business about the meter string. But they're fun to use and take good pictures, and it's a bit cool to be able to share a set of lenses between your RF and your SLR. So, probably undervalued on multiple counts!

SIDEBAR: The other day I was trying to think if there had ever been any RF cameras other than some using Leica M mounts (Leica, Minolta CL/CLE, Zeiss Ikon?... but not any of the Cosina Bessas) that change their framelines automatically when the lens is changed, and the ONLY one I could think of was the Retina IIIS. Right, or not?

Fun fact about the Retina Reflex S: The silvering on its prism tends to go bad, leading to a very dim finder view... but the lovely, high-quality glass prism from any Minolta XG-7 or XG-9 is a drop-in replacement, and broken XGs are fairly plentiful...

 

[santino]

Undervalued: The Retina IIIS rangefinder and all the commonly available DKL mount lenses that were made for it. Also, the Retina Reflex (SLR) 35mm models accepting the same DKL lenses. I am amazed at how well most of these cameras/lenses still work as well as their fine build quality.

Overvalued: Hasselblad 500 series, as some have noted above. This is a super camera, but not justifying $2000 (or more) with a prime lens and a back IMO.

I don‘t know. I think 2000 for a 500CM with prime lens is more justified than for an M6 without lens. Actually I think the V series cameras are the most versatile photographic tools ever built.

Ang I agree about the DKL lenses!

 

[David Murphy]

I agree with the sentiments about the Minolta SR, SRT series of bodies and lenses - most really fine, particularly the SRT series and all the lenses made for it as well as the vast selection of aftermarket lenses. The SRT-101 and its later derivatives are standouts.

Also a good deal, as mentioned by another poster, is the Konica Auto-reflex series, at least up to the models where they started selling battery dependent cameras with lots of plastic, etc. One model in particular I like is the Auto-Reflex P if you can find one (not very common). This camera, despite its name is fully manual - not even a meter. It is an amazingly well-made SLR, fairly light and compact, nice looking, and it can go half-frame if you want it to. The early automatic exposure Auto-Reflex Konica's when using auto exposure also really work well if you can get the battery voltages right. They do all this all with fully mechanical shutters (by controlling the lens iris) -- no battery dependence at all if one prefers not to rely on the automation. There are tons of mostly excellent modestly AR mount lenses out there too, especially aftermarket lenses.

 

[David Murphy]

I don‘t know. I think 2000 for a 500CM with prime lens is more justified than for an M6 without lens. Actually I think the V series cameras are the most versatile photographic tools ever built.

Ang I agree about the DKL lenses!

Given a choice like that, from a purely results driven perspective, I'd certainly prefer using the 500CM+Planar as well.

 

[ranger9]

Given a choice like that, from a purely results driven perspective, I'd certainly prefer using the 500CM+Planar as well.

Yeah, but wearing an M6 without a lens would be a great conversation-starter at photo walks...

 

[Dogman]

Overpriced: Everything Leitz/Leica. I can't believe people actually get the prices they are asking for worn out gear that is not functional. Hasselblad 500 Series. It wasn't so long ago you could put together a nice outfit in good shape for less than $1000. That was when pros went digital and dumped their medium format gear. Hard to believe how quickly the Hasselblad went from undervalued to overvalued.

Undervalued: Older DSLRs in good shape. You can get a great deal on a pro build camera these days by dipping into the early catalogs. Some of the lower to medium range models are so cheap you can buy a half dozen at a time and trash them when they begin to fail.

 

[dreamsandart]

There are just so many under appreciated good/great /amazing value film cameras out there. I’ve been a Leica user for [yes] decades, and keep up on their current prices pretty much. Here in ‘film-land’ Japan they are a good example of the over-under value. M-series are just for the most part crazy priced, maybe even good value if you are thinking ’investment,’ as they hold their value, - the ultimate 35mm film camera for many. But the LTM Leica can be maybe the best value; workmanship, style, still the Leica name folks know and love, and ‘reasonably’ priced in the few hundred dollar range instead of the M-series thousands.

A LTM Leica camera paired with some of the still very good and [can be] reasonably priced LTM lenses from Leitz or other manufactures, can be a nice set-up to use, fun and somewhat ‘cheap’ to buy, but with the satisfaction - if you're into Leica - to go along with it.

 

[xayraa33]

Most undervalued? L series Prakticas - a lot of the commentary about them is based on ideology rather than experience.

I agree with your statement. I had much more expensive and highly lauded cameras that let me down more than any lowly L series Prakticas.

 

[David Murphy]

There are just so many under appreciated good/great /amazing value film cameras out there. I’ve been a Leica user for [yes] decades, and keep up on their current prices pretty much. Here in ‘film-land’ Japan they are a good example of the over-under value. M-series are just for the most part crazy priced, maybe even good value if you are thinking ’investment,’ as they hold their value, - the ultimate 35mm film camera for many. But the LTM Leica can be maybe the best value; workmanship, style, still the Leica name folks know and love, and ‘reasonably’ priced in the few hundred dollar range instead of the M-series thousands.

A LTM Leica camera paired with some of the still very good and [can be] reasonably priced LTM lenses from Leitz or other manufactures, can be a nice set-up to use, fun and somewhat ‘cheap’ to buy, but with the satisfaction - if you're into Leica - to go along with it.

Very true. The rather vast screw mount Leica system is capable is amazing photos at moderate price, and can be integrated well with the many, many interesting and useful aftermarket L39 lenses and accessories - some of exceedingly high quality.

 

[jsrockit]

One model in particular I like is the Auto-Reflex P if you can find one (not very common). This camera, despite its name is fully manual - not even a meter. It is an amazingly well-made SLR, fairly light and compact, nice looking, and it can go half-frame if you want it to.

That's pretty damn cool...

 

[xayraa33]

I think the 1960 to 1972 Kiev 4 and 4a cameras are undervalued for FSU cameras. Not as nicely made direct Contax replicas as the Kiev II and Kiev III but not as junky as the 1980 to 1983 Kiev AM and M.

 

[Mos6502]

I have a Kiev 4AM that works fine, the two Kiev 4a cameras which were supposed to be superior gave nothing but trouble and I sold them off quickly. None of them were a joy to use though. The only ex-USSR rangefinder that impressed me was the Fed 3 (knob wind) and I still have it. Tried the Zorkis (3m, 4, 4k, 6), the Fed 4, and Fed 5, but the Fed 3 had the best build and best blend of features of all of them. The operation of the Fed 3 is the smoothest, second only to the operation of my Leica IIIf, and since I first picked it up it surprised me nobody ever talks about the 3.

 

[marduk]

The pricing on XPan has gone through the roof in Austria. I've seen sets reach as high as 18 000 Euro on second hand market. I regret not paying 1200 for the used kit when I had a chance to get my hands onto one many years ago :-D

 

[xayraa33]

I have a Kiev 4AM that works fine, the two Kiev 4a cameras which were supposed to be superior gave nothing but trouble and I sold them off quickly. None of them were a joy to use though. The only ex-USSR rangefinder that impressed me was the Fed 3 (knob wind) and I still have it. Tried the Zorkis (3m, 4, 4k, 6), the Fed 4, and Fed 5, but the Fed 3 had the best build and best blend of features of all of them. The operation of the Fed 3 is the smoothest, second only to the operation of my Leica IIIf, and since I first picked it up it surprised me nobody ever talks about the 3.

They are old cameras now so your mileage my vary. I had a Fed 3 and the thing fell apart on its own, not an unusual thing with FSU gear. I had a Zenit EM that came apart on its own and a wide angle lens for a Kiev 6 that self destructed with very little use and a new Kiev 19 SLR that jammed on its 2nd roll of film.

 

[Thatspec]

Probably mentioned but the Mamiya 7, 7II, and even the 6 have become astronomically overpriced. Seems like any 6x7 walk around is just not worth it anymore...

 

[JeffS7444]

Canon Rebel G can still be had cheaply: Last generation plastic SLR lacks DOF preview, but otherwise has the expected modern amenities like automated film loading. Smooth and quiet operation, light weight, works very well with modern 40/2.8 pancake lens. Choose rechargeable lithium batteries, and it's cheap to feed, too. Japanese-market variant can be had with panorama feature. It's new enough that chances are, it will work fine without the need for servicing, and I expect that there's little that needs servicing anyhow.

 

[DownUnder]

Overpriced?? Any camera posted on Ebay. Full stop!!

I've just had a good look at Ebay Australia, in their cameras and other photographic sections, for the first time in ages. Now I need a stiff drink...

(But I did note the sometimes great differences between asking the sellers' auction/buy it now prices and the finished sales.)

 

[das]

Probably mentioned but the Mamiya 7, 7II, and even the 6 have become astronomically overpriced. Seems like any 6x7 walk around is just not worth it anymore...

While I totally agree that they are overpriced, the Mamiya 6 and 7 were possibly the greatest rangefinder medium format cameras ever made. They were $$$ when first sold and produce really extraordinary photos.

 

[David Hughes]

Too lazy to read all 78 post but I can't see a mention of the Topcon SLR's, the Konica SLR's and the Pentax K1000.

There's also a lot of excellent little compact cameras like the Leica mini range and a lot of others. OK, they're plastic bodied but warships, aircraft and cars are plastic bodied and no one notices...

And, lastly but by no means least, there were one or two oddities that seem to qualify like that top of the range Praktica or Pentacon - I wish I could remember the model number.

A lot of the SLR's listed seem to belong to the big chunky class or pre-Olympus OM-1 style. So I ought to add the OM- range to the under valued list, especially the M-1 version as it add rarity for a fairly low price. A lot of people earned a very nice living thanks to their OM-1 and it's not even labelled "Pro" and so on.

Talking of prices; the Leica R's are dirt cheap at present; if you just want a very good to excellent camera body (often without a body cap) but be warned that the lenses and repair costs more than make up for the dirt cheapness of the bodies. It's best to look for the body with a lens as you don't get a shock later and do study the range; they vary a lot in what they offer...

Regards, David