Voightlander Bessa R and Lens Question

[MonAndrew77]

Greetings from Virginia,

I'm primarily an SLR shooter and, of late, I'm shooting a fair amount of film "again...." all B/W and processing it myself and printing on an enlarger.

I recently was gifted a circa-2001 Voightlander Bessa R L39 with a 15mm f/4.5, a 35mm f/1.7 and a 75mm f/2.5 lens. The camera has a ding or two, but the lenses are in good shape, optically. I shot 72 exposures and the camera works great.

Seems like the perfect kit, actually. I can't imagine needing much more than these three focal lengths for the kind of photography I'd want to do with this camera. I love the way the 35 and the 75 are both represented in the finder's frame options and I like the 1/2000 shutter speed. I like having a real meter and a "modern" camera I don't have to worry about (some 80 year old relic developing and expensive problem.)

I suppose it would be even better if it were an M-mount, as long as I was going be gifted whole-hog into the rangerfinder experience, but hey, I think this was a pretty good stroke of luck, all things being equal. I'd really like to settle in with this for a few years and see how I like rangefinders and from what I'm reading folks really like these Voightlander lenses.

Now the downside.... The 35 is in rough shape. The front element is "loose" and it looks like somehow it's been cross threaded and I can't get it off. I've been advised by my local store to have a pro do this repair, but all the "pros" seem to charge a lot just to look at it. The focusing travel isn't "complete" leading me to believe someone tried to fix this and ran into trouble. It's all there, but it's gonna need a pro to sort it out. The dings on the body suggest the camera and the 35mm were dropped at some point.

So, my thought is, maybe I should replace the 35mm lens. What do y'all think of the 35mm f/1.7 Ultron? Is there a "better" lens to buy, as long as I'm starting over with the focal length I'll probably use 75% of the time? Is there a super-cheap 35mm I could buy temporarily to hold me over while I look for the "great" 35mm solution, of is that kinda silly?

I don't see these screw mount 35mm lenses anywhere here in the states, although I could buy one tomorrow from a Japanese or Hong Kong eBay seller. The guy who gave it to me bought it all from 47th Street Photo around 2001 or so.

Many thanks for your help....

Andrew







Andrew

 

[Coldkennels]

Personally, I wasn't a big fan of either of the LTM Voigtlander Ultrons (the 28/1.9 or the 35/1.7) - they're both bigger than I like, and while the speed is nice, the rendering of both left me a little cold. That said, if you like the rendering of the Ultron, I think it's worth having it repaired. It's often better spending the money getting things working instead of throwing money at an unknown quantity that might be in worse shape and/or need repairing anyway.

However, if you're going to look at other 35mm lenses, there's Color Skopars in both focal lengths (28/3.5 and 35/2.5), which I much prefer; I believe they're generally more expensive on the used market than their Ultron counterparts, so I don't think I'm alone in that.

As far as other LTM 35mm lenses go...

• Skip the Jupiter 12 (it doesn't focus correctly when not on a Soviet body, no matter what people may claim). It's cheap and a solid little lens in the right context/system, but it'll never be quite right on the Bessa. The big rear element might not even fit in a Bessa, now I think about it.
• Leitz made a few compact 35mm options (35/3.5 Elmar, 35/3.5 Summaron, 35/2.8 Summaron), which might feel a bit out of place on the Bessa; the Summarons are fantastic lenses, and the Elmar (from what I see online - I've never owned one) has a properly vintage rendering. If I used a 35mm lens more, I'd track one down. All of these are prone to haze, though.
• Canon is the other most common 35mm lens option in LTM. I picked up the 35/1.8 years back; it's consistently good from f/2.8 onwards, but wide open it varies wildly, with some shots being great, and some being a soft and glowy mess. In hindsight, I wish I'd grabbed a 35/2, which people claim is a much better lens.
• There's also a bunch of Nikkor 35mm lenses but I have zero experience with those, so someone else will have to chime in there.

 

[robert blu]

I have the Bessa R and the Ultrom 35/1.7 LTM, both from the same time as yours.
Last summer I noticed the Ultron was "foggy" and I had it cleaned by a pro. Focus was correct and Ihad never droppped it. It was worthwhile to do so, it is a lens I like to use sometimes even oin the M10 !

I suggest to ask an estimation of the cost to have it repaired.

 

[MonAndrew77]

Rangefinder Pals,

I will definitely try and get a firm estimate on the repair before I pull the trigger on a replacement. I hear you on the unknown quantity. I might need a repair on the new lens as well!

There's a 35/2.5 Color Skopar on eBay right now from a US seller that looks to be in decent shape. My understanding is the Ultron 35/1.7 isn't altogether sharp wide open anyways! There are also plenty of Color Skopar's from Japan. What do y'all think?

[Almost MINT] Voigtlander COLOR-SKOPAR 35mm F2.5 MC C Type L39 LTM - USA Seller 4002451194426 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for [Almost MINT] Voigtlander COLOR-SKOPAR 35mm F2.5 MC C Type L39 LTM - USA Seller at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

My SLR/DSLR rig is all Nikon Ai, AF-D and so forth, so I'd kinda like to go in another brand direction with my rangefinder journey....

Andrew

 

[rfaspen]

First off, congrats on the very generous gift. I have an R too. I used to use it frequently but I've drifted from film and I have a few other rangefinders in the cupboard 😏. I think the R is very capable and has everything you want as a modern shooter.
I never had the 35/1.7 Ultron but some here at RFF think highly of it....I think Eric stratton does. But I have a few other CV lenses in 35 and they're all good. Got the 35/2.5 color skopar years ago and it's definitely a fine little lens. I always thought it was under-priced. I can recommend it. I also like my 35/1.4 Ultron but it's got quirks. The other lenses listed in previous post are all good too and described pretty much as I would.
Our head bartender here at RFF -- Stephen Gandy AKA CameraQuest -- is the NA distributor for CV (Cosina-Voigtlander). Contact him for guidance on repair for your Ultron.
Also, you might find the 15/4.5 a bit wide and challenging to use. A much easier ultrawide (in my opinion) is the CV 21/4. It can be found for shocking low price and as long as you get a "good" lens, it performs very well on film. Ask around...also ask Stephen if he has any pre-owned units...
And last... welcome to the dark side!

 

[agentlossing]

The screw mount 35mm f2.5 Color Skopar was a fantastic lens when I owned it. Nice focus "post" for those who like them (I do) and very nice and sharp, neutral rendering. They're prone to haze issues and mine was advertised as having light haze, but I never saw it influence the shots and couldn't really see it myself.

 

[Coldkennels]

Also, you might find the 15/4.5 a bit wide and challenging to use. A much easier ultrawide (in my opinion) is the CV 21/4. It can be found for shocking low price and as long as you get a "good" lens, it performs very well on film.

I'll second this. I bought the 15mm Super-Wide Heliar years ago and have very, very rarely used it on film. I found it worked better for me on Fuji APS-C bodies, but could never really get used to the super-wide view on film or full-frame. It's a good lens (and surprisingly rectilinear) but 15mm is a very situational focal length for me, and it's rare I have a use for anything that wide.

Meanwhile, I finally found the 21mm Color Skopar in decent condition (a small amount of haze) for a good price last year, and that's a totally different kettle of fish. It's still noticeably wider than 28mm, but nothing like as wide as the 15mm. You can actually use it to take photos of people without it looking ridiculous, and compositions look far more "natural", for want of a better word.

Here's two photos of the same house from two different test rolls, for comparison. They're obviously not identical compositions, but as the house itself is roughly the same size in the frame, you can tell from the bush in front of it how much closer you have to be to get the same sort of framing.

(The snowy photo is the 21mm, if it wasn't obvious - and I'm aware that this is one of the few examples in my archive where the 15mm is probably the better shot!)

 

[Ko.Fe.]

35 1.7 LTM Ultrons are prons to get loose under regular use and for not repairable fogging.
We can't find anything on old RFF after an "upgrade", but I remember thread where it was an avalanche of fogged ones.

Two versions of 35 2.5 LTM Color Skopars are more primitive on bw rendering, but OK and compact lenses.

Regarding relict comment, Bessa R series works more like spot metering. If you are trying to use it as average metering, it goes nuts.

 

[wlewisiii]

I have the 35/1.7 Ultron and like it well enough but I've been planning on getting the 35/2.5 Color Skopar to replace it in my daily carry. That's one of the truly great VC lenses.

With an excuse like that repair, I'd spend the money on the other lens instantly.

The meter is classic old school center wieghted.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I have the 35/1.7 Ultron and like it well enough but I've been planning on getting the 35/2.5 Color Skopar to replace it in my daily carry. That's one of the truly great VC lenses.

With an excuse like that repair, I'd spend the money on the other lens instantly.

The meter is classic old school center wieghted.

Rs meters are metering only what small area around RF patch is pointed at. Center metering is more wide area.
If R, L, T is pointed at dark and bright areas nearby, metering goes nuts.

 

[wlewisiii]

Rs meters are metering only what small area around RF patch is pointed at. Center metering is more wide area.
If R, L, T is pointed at dark and bright areas nearby, metering goes nuts.

Sounds like what my AE-1 was like in 1983. But I may be misremembering.

 

[MonAndrew77]

Rangefinder Brethren,

OK, I'm sold on the 35mm f2.5 Color Skopar. I think it's worth getting and when I finally get the Ultron fixed (which at this rate might be several months) I can compare them and see the differences. In the meantime, I can get to actually doing some shooting with the Bessa R instead of continuing to just "test it" with a 15mm and a 75mm.

Where should I look for an LTM 35mm f2.5 Color Skopar (besides eBay and KEH) and how much should I pay? What do y'all think of that one on eBay? Pricey, no? I'd like to try and get a black one.

Dumb question, I realize, but this is totally out of production in LTM, right? You can't buy it new, right?

Many thanks...

Andrew

 

[splitimageview]

No, production ended in 2008 or 2009.

 

[Coldkennels]

Dumb question, I realize, but this is totally out of production in LTM, right? You can't buy it new, right?

If you wanted new (and trustworthy!) you could pick up the 40/2.8 Heliar that just got released last year: Voigtlander 40mm f/2.8 LTM Leica Screw Mount M39 Black Paint

Sure, it's not quite 35mm. But it's close. And I hear very good things about it.

 

[newst]

Frankly, I didn't care for the Voigtlander 35mm Ultron, it was too clinical for my tastes and the bokeh was much too busy for the images that I prefer to take. Notice these objections to that lens are solely personal preference.

I have used many additional 35mm LTM lenses, Leica Summaron 35mm, W. Acall 3.5/35, Canon 1.7/35, 2/35, 2.8/35, and 3.5/35. In the end I liked the images produced by the Canon 2.8/35 over the rest.

On a side note, I also like the images produced by the Jupiter 12, 2.8/35. This won't help you much because the deep inner element of the J-12 interferes with the light meter of the Bessa-R.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Rangefinder Brethren,

OK, I'm sold on the 35mm f2.5 Color Skopar. I think it's worth getting and when I finally get the Ultron fixed (which at this rate might be several months) I can compare them and see the differences. In the meantime, I can get to actually doing some shooting with the Bessa R instead of continuing to just "test it" with a 15mm and a 75mm.

Where should I look for an LTM 35mm f2.5 Color Skopar (besides eBay and KEH) and how much should I pay? What do y'all think of that one on eBay? Pricey, no? I'd like to try and get a black one.

Dumb question, I realize, but this is totally out of production in LTM, right? You can't buy it new, right?

Many thanks...

Andrew

I had all three versions of CS 35 2.5. First LTM was without focus tab and focusing to 1 meter only or so.
M PII and last one C type in LTM. I recommend C-type, because focus pimple is handy.

All three are same optics, but were different on flaring. C-type seems to be less flaring, with its tiny hood.

Ultron 35 1.7 is aspherical lens, Color Skopar is not. Ultron renders small details better on bw film. Color Skopar gives kind of "something is missing" feel.

eBay, check sold only prices. It will show for how much it is selling for, not offering at. Old new stock, check with cameraquest.

RFF have classifieds.

 

[Darthfeeble]

I have the same setup, I really like the 35/1.7, it lives on my Bessa R. If it has focus issues it is more likely the huge aperture making exact focus hard to find. I would definitely pay to have it fixed. You will find that the 15 will essentially make your camera a point and shoot if shot at f8 or smaller. The 75 has yet to be used on my Bessa so I can't really speak to it but it's been a fine lens on my Epson and my Leica, both using adapters of course.

 

[robert blu]

CV Ultron 35/1.7 LTM on M10, after I had the lens professionally cleaned:

I should have a few shot taken with the Bessa R and this lens, I need to look for them first.

 

[robert blu]

Here a few pictures taken with the Bessa R and CV Ultron 35/1.7 LTM on Agfa APX film in year 2010

 

[MonAndrew77]

Rangefinder Friends,

OK. One more question. A few weeks ago I called around many of the usual places for service. Many wouldn't look at the Ultron, one was backloggged or otherwise not taking in new lenses, one was "retired" and one was kinda pricey just to look the lens over.

In the Spring of 2023, where would be the best place to send a lens like this for service?

In my case it's gonna have to be a very knowledgeable technician becuase I'm convinced this lens was disassembled and reassembled improperly, in addition to having some kind of a jam in the threadding where the front aperature section screws onto the larger part of the lens.

Many thanks....

Andrew