The best 'Non Leica' M-mount camera is ..... ???

The best 'Non Leica' M-mount camera is ..... ???

  • Epson R-D1

    Votes: 2 2.3%
  • Minolta CLE

    Votes: 14 16.3%
  • Konica Hexar RF

    Votes: 20 23.3%
  • Voigtlander: Bessa R2A, R3A, R2M, R3M, R4M and R4A, Bessa T

    Votes: 15 17.4%
  • Rollei 35 RF

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Zeiss Ikon

    Votes: 28 32.6%
  • Ricoh GXR

    Votes: 2 2.3%
  • PIXII

    Votes: 5 5.8%

  • Total voters
    86
I only have experience with Bessa, Ikon, and Leica.

For Bessa I'd pick the R2M for personal use, though mine was an R2A. However, the whole line is fantastic and has no peers in the R3 and R4 series. I would love to have one of each!

Leica is my favorite with very few nitpicks from me: mine is an M4 and I wish it had an M6 TTL shutter dial.

Ikon was my least favorite though it was the one I wanted to like the most. I gave it a good long try, but could not get along with that viewfinder. I get that people like how big and bright it is, but the disappearing frame lines and illuminated AE readings to the left of the image detracted too much from the shooting experience. I also did not find the build quality to be that much above the Bessa, while not feeling nearly as nice as the Leica.

I would like to try an Hexar some day. I shoot a Contax G system, and I heard they are similar in use but with the advantage of a much better viewfinder and manual focus.
 
This is the "best" not the best value.
So the perhaps "ephemeral " best.
Personally I like to continue using the best. If it fails (not due to abuse accident)....or if it has a limited lifetime, it would not make my best list
 
You have one vote, so...you make the rules for that one vote.
JR (wearing your moderator hat)..... What is your call on the Leica CL? ......as it was a Leica/Minolta collaboration.... but the body regardless of badge (Leica or Leitz/Minolta) was manufactured exclusively in Japan.
 
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I've owned a Bessa and was never overly impressed by its build (the Rollei RF was a rebadged Bessa). The fully electronic Hexar RF (no manual controls) is an elaborate paperweight waiting to happen. The RD-1, while having the distinction of being the first digital RF M-mount, at 5 megapixels - no thanks. While I've been tempted to purchase a CLE, I've never been tempted by a Pixii - so my vote went to the CLE.

I've never understood the praise of the Zeiss-Ikon. It does have a large bright viewfinder, but the RF whites out unless your eye is precisely placed. Sorry, but I found it's RF to be essentially worthless.

I would agree the CL should NOT be on the list. It wasn't manufactured by Leica, but it was designed and marketed by Leica.
 
Split, How do you factor repairability into the equation? I'm not talking about continued use of a camera bought long ago. For example, I had a Minolta CLE when they were in production and got very good results with it, but i'd be reticent to buy one now at $800 USD. My observation goes for any camera for which parts (particularly electronic components) are no longer available.

The key here is to acquire cameras that have had easy lives; the uglier they look, the more likely they've been abused or subjected to less than ideal conditions, all of which can contribute to failures sooner or later.

An electronic failure on the CLE can be a relatively simple board-level repair as it's an early 1980s production (a solder joint that went bad, or a bad cap. Bad caps are actually a common failure of early 80s Minolta SLRs.) The Konica being a much later production (2000ish) has more complicated circuits, flex PCBs, surface mount components, and such things make it more difficult to work on. More traumatic failures ( for example shutter mechanism) require donor cameras, which have other unrepairable faults.

I have owned 3 (I think) Hexar RF over the years, none failed, FWIW. Ditto with CLE.

At that point it becomes a matter of the repair expense, and finding a tech (who has specific experience on the given model) to swap the parts.

There was a recent post here about a Minolta CLE expert (Scott Nielsen) and there are other individuals that specialize in specific brands such as @monopix who can resurrect many models of electronic Contax SLRs. I don't know of any individuals that specializes in the Konica or the Zeiss but that doesn't mean there aren't any. Maybe Dave Easterwood is worth contacting. Perhaps there are techs in Japan?

Bottom line: factor the price of the camera into the risk equation. I just acquired a super-nice CLE with a 6 month warranty for $600, I figure I can do that five times over and still be ahead of the cost of an equivalent condition M6. 😎
 
I've never understood the praise of the Zeiss-Ikon. It does have a large bright viewfinder, but the RF whites out unless your eye is precisely placed. Sorry, but I found it's RF to be essentially worthless.

Eye placement is important and becomes second nature the more one uses the camera. Somewhat similar issue with Contax G series except the entire viewfinder dims/blacks out if the eye isn't properly centered; the exit pupil of the optical viewfinder is quite narrow.
 
I sent an email to KEH a few minutes ago asking if they repair these cameras (added the Contax G1/G2 as well), here is the reply, a qualified YES. So they do have techs familiar with the hardware.

Thank you for contacting KEH. Yes, depending on what's wrong internally would depend on what repairs we could do. Parts are limited or not available at all. If we did have the part/parts, they would be good used parts but those can be hit or miss. Until we see the equipment it is hard to say. If we cannot repair it for any reason, we will return it to you unrepaired at no charge.
 
JR (wearing your moderator hat)..... What is your call on the Leica CL? ......as it was a Leica/Minolta collaboration.... but the body regardless of badge (Leica or Leitz/Minolta) was manufactured exclusively in Japan.
Oh, the hat does not make me an expert. To me, it is a Leica. I mean, aren't the Leica SLRs (like the R3) developed by Minolta as well? Nobody says the R3 isn't a Leica.
 
Oh, the hat does not make me an expert. To me, it is a Leica. I mean, aren't the Leica SLRs (like the R3) developed by Minolta as well? Nobody says the R3 isn't a Leica.
Since you put it that way...I guess it depends which way the wind blows.
 
Now, are the Voigtlanders... Cosinas or Voigtlanders? 😉
Well i'd say it doesn't matter, since Cosina bought the name.....& Voigtlander Germany no longer exists. C/CV are making some fine LTM and M (& other lenses) ...... but for sure my Perkeo ll is not a Cosina 😉
 
Split, How do you factor repairability into the equation? I'm not talking about continued use of a camera bought long ago. For example, I had a Minolta CLE when they were in production and got very good results with it, but i'd be reticent to buy one now at $800 USD. My observation goes for any camera for which parts (particularly electronic components) are no longer available.
There is a guy in the foothills of Sierra who fixes CLE and was Minolta trained. He has a lot of happy folks in the various forums.
 
Oh, the hat does not make me an expert. To me, it is a Leica. I mean, aren't the Leica SLRs (like the R3) developed by Minolta as well? Nobody says the R3 isn't a Leica.
....though the R SLR Leicas were either made in Germany or Portugal....i.e. in Leica owned facilities .....apparently
 
Digital: I voted Pixii because you can buy one brand-new with a two-year manufacturer warranty and excellent technical support (the CEO answers emails!) plus because it's cool. The range/viewfinder isn't nearly as nice as the Epson R-D1's, though. (Yes, I own both.)

Film: We only get one vote (boo!) but if we could split between digital and film I'd also vote for the Cosina Voigtlander R3M (yes, I own one of those too) because it seems like the all-around best compromise. The R3 and R4 series are streets ahead of the preceding Bessas in terms of finish and solid feel, and there are plenty of people who can service their generic Copal and Cosina guts in case of trouble. The biggest plus to all the Cosina Bessas is the fabulous 1x range/viewfinder which makes it comfortable to use with both eyes open, just as if you weren't looking through a camera at all. Magical once you've tried it. (The R-D1, which is built on a Cosina chassis, has the same amazing finder.)

In the past I've owned a Minolta CL, but it didn't get my vote because the short-base rangefinder is too limiting. I've also owned a CLE, which I loved and would own again except for the lack of manual metering and the fact that I was always accidentally turning off the dratted power switch with an errant pinkie finger! I've never been able to try either an Ikon or a Hexar, but they both sound like they'd be awesome to use!
 
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