DownUnder
Nikon Nomad
I'm thinking about buying a camera. This time a Leica CL.
For me the advantages here are size and weight. At my age, carrying a Nikon D800 kit is getting to be a bit too much. My D800s are not small, and my D700s now reside on a shelf at home. Like cement bricks.
Granted, the CLs are basically an upmarket Panasonic - or are they? Some say yes, others say no. Most say maybe.
The design and functions do come across as being, well, somewhat dated. The images I've seen from the CL appeal, but I'm still not quite sure if they are as, well, 'punchy' and colorful as what I'm used to with my Nikon DSLRs.
No longer in production as well. A few are now popping up on the secondhand market. Prices vary. Ebay sellers want too much, so what else is new? In AUS they hover at the AUD $2500-$3500 mark, not bad for a Leica made in Germany.
But those Leitz L lenses, wow. Expensive! As an age pensioner I don't own any shares in a bank, so cost is an important factor for me.
I cold make do with the 18/2.8 for a start. Then add maybe the zoom Elmar. Which would suit me as a general walkabout and travel kit.
Someone recently told me Sigma makes a range of lenses for the CL. In fact there are two ranges. The Art range, and the Contemporary range.
My source also told the Sigmas lenses are made from metal and not plastic. Another plus here.
Beyond all the above, I know nothing more. An internet search has turned up a little information, usually quite casual comments short on detail. Not really useful to me as I tend to overthink things anyway, so I look for mega loads of data and information before I decide if I will buy or not.
My query now. Does anybody here use Sigma lenses on a CL? If so, what are your thoughts?
As well, does any other manufacturer make lenses for the CL? I did think maybe Voigtlander, but someone here says no.
For me the advantages here are size and weight. At my age, carrying a Nikon D800 kit is getting to be a bit too much. My D800s are not small, and my D700s now reside on a shelf at home. Like cement bricks.
Granted, the CLs are basically an upmarket Panasonic - or are they? Some say yes, others say no. Most say maybe.
The design and functions do come across as being, well, somewhat dated. The images I've seen from the CL appeal, but I'm still not quite sure if they are as, well, 'punchy' and colorful as what I'm used to with my Nikon DSLRs.
No longer in production as well. A few are now popping up on the secondhand market. Prices vary. Ebay sellers want too much, so what else is new? In AUS they hover at the AUD $2500-$3500 mark, not bad for a Leica made in Germany.
But those Leitz L lenses, wow. Expensive! As an age pensioner I don't own any shares in a bank, so cost is an important factor for me.
I cold make do with the 18/2.8 for a start. Then add maybe the zoom Elmar. Which would suit me as a general walkabout and travel kit.
Someone recently told me Sigma makes a range of lenses for the CL. In fact there are two ranges. The Art range, and the Contemporary range.
My source also told the Sigmas lenses are made from metal and not plastic. Another plus here.
Beyond all the above, I know nothing more. An internet search has turned up a little information, usually quite casual comments short on detail. Not really useful to me as I tend to overthink things anyway, so I look for mega loads of data and information before I decide if I will buy or not.
My query now. Does anybody here use Sigma lenses on a CL? If so, what are your thoughts?
As well, does any other manufacturer make lenses for the CL? I did think maybe Voigtlander, but someone here says no.
shawn
Veteran
The Leica CL uses the Leica L mount and is compatible with any L mount lens. Those include Leica, Panasonic, Sigma and others.
The thing to remember with the Leica CL is it is an APS-C crop sensor camera. You can use any L mount crop lens (sigma DC DN or Leica TL) on it or a full frame L mount lens. That camera is a Leica, Panasonic has no equivalent.
In Sigma speak the lenses that are meant for crop sensors are DC DN and their full frame versions are the DG DN. They have other L mount lenses that were based on DSLR lenses with adapters built in. Those tend to be larger, and don't AF as well, so I'd suggest sticking with DG/DC DN lenses.
I have a number of Sigma L mount lenses and top to bottom they are all fantastic lenses. Sigma is on a huge roll with their made for mirrorless DG DN series lenses in both the Art and Contemporary series. Additionally they have what they call the I series which falls under Contemporary. The I series are all smaller bodied lenses with metal bodies, metal lens hoods and aperture rings. Most are full frame but would work fine on the CL.
I have a combination of ART and I series. 17mm f4, 20mm f2, 24mm f3.5, 35mm f1.2, 45mm f2.8, 50mm f1.4, 85mm f1.4 and 105mm f2.8 Macro. Everything from 24mm down (and the 45mm) are the smaller I series lenses. Everything else is ART. I also have the Panasonic 24-105. I use the lenses on a Panasonic S1R, S1 (IR converted) and a Sigma fp L.
The 24mm f3.5 would make a nice lenses on a CL as it would be equivalent to a 36mm.
The really cool thing about L mount is you can build up a collection of lenses and they work with Leica, Panasonic and Sigma L mount bodies.
Additionally, there are adapters that can make Canon EF lenses AF on L mount and you can of course adapt almost any lens to the CL as it is mirrorless with a short flange focal length. Doing this results in a larger setup though due to the size of the original lens plus the adapter.
The thing to remember with the Leica CL is it is an APS-C crop sensor camera. You can use any L mount crop lens (sigma DC DN or Leica TL) on it or a full frame L mount lens. That camera is a Leica, Panasonic has no equivalent.
In Sigma speak the lenses that are meant for crop sensors are DC DN and their full frame versions are the DG DN. They have other L mount lenses that were based on DSLR lenses with adapters built in. Those tend to be larger, and don't AF as well, so I'd suggest sticking with DG/DC DN lenses.
I have a number of Sigma L mount lenses and top to bottom they are all fantastic lenses. Sigma is on a huge roll with their made for mirrorless DG DN series lenses in both the Art and Contemporary series. Additionally they have what they call the I series which falls under Contemporary. The I series are all smaller bodied lenses with metal bodies, metal lens hoods and aperture rings. Most are full frame but would work fine on the CL.
I have a combination of ART and I series. 17mm f4, 20mm f2, 24mm f3.5, 35mm f1.2, 45mm f2.8, 50mm f1.4, 85mm f1.4 and 105mm f2.8 Macro. Everything from 24mm down (and the 45mm) are the smaller I series lenses. Everything else is ART. I also have the Panasonic 24-105. I use the lenses on a Panasonic S1R, S1 (IR converted) and a Sigma fp L.
The 24mm f3.5 would make a nice lenses on a CL as it would be equivalent to a 36mm.
The really cool thing about L mount is you can build up a collection of lenses and they work with Leica, Panasonic and Sigma L mount bodies.
Additionally, there are adapters that can make Canon EF lenses AF on L mount and you can of course adapt almost any lens to the CL as it is mirrorless with a short flange focal length. Doing this results in a larger setup though due to the size of the original lens plus the adapter.
shawn
Veteran
Also worth mentioning... in the long run it is probably better to get full frame L mount lenses. Nobody is making any crop body L mount cameras now. The full frame I series lenses are bigger than the Leica crop frame lenses but not a huge amount. This shows the Sigma fp L with the Sigma 24 f3.5 compared to the Leica CL with the Leica 23mm and the CL with the Sigma 24mm f3.5. Both 24mms obviously have their hoods on which can be inverted and stored on lens. Used you can get the 24mm for about 1/4 the cost of a used Leica 23mm.
Also check out Yokosuka_Mike's I series thread too.
Also check out Yokosuka_Mike's I series thread too.
Last edited:
DownUnder
Nikon Nomad
A brief post to say MANY thanks to you for having taken the time to write this. Most valuable. This is the most detailed and comprehensive post of information I've found in my search. Many here will surely find it useful, so it's all the more important for having been posted.
(Of course it's what I've come to expect from RFF, but do I need to say this? Anyway, I have written it. So!)
Your images posted in the separate thread are truly excellent. They above everything else have made me think much more positively about the change I'm now considering in my photography (gear).
Again, thanks!!
Last edited:
D
Deleted member 65559
Guest
I always wondered why Leica re-used the CL name tag .... there are many of the originals still in service.
shawn
Veteran
Throwback to the past. Leica's big mirrorless camera is the Leica SL (also reused), the smaller one is the CL and TL.
trix4ever
Well-known
I have CL, as well as SL, SL2-S, S1. S1R and the little CL is my most used camera.
I actually prefer the evf to the SL Finder despite the specs.
I also use Sigma dg dn lenses, in particular the 17/4 and 24/3.5.
I would highly recommend the 18-50mm f2.8 Sigma, tiny light lens and very sharp.
Never test the 11-23 Leica lens, if you do you will have to have it...best wide zoom I have ever used by a long shot.
I also love that the batteries are dirt cheap and are the same as those in my Q and Fp.
Oh and the Panasonic 20-60mm makes a Great 30-90mm on the CL and balances well on it.
I have the 18/2.8 and never use it for some reason. It's like it's almost too small.
Taken on the CL with 11-23mm
South Grafton, nsw, oz
I actually prefer the evf to the SL Finder despite the specs.
I also use Sigma dg dn lenses, in particular the 17/4 and 24/3.5.
I would highly recommend the 18-50mm f2.8 Sigma, tiny light lens and very sharp.
Never test the 11-23 Leica lens, if you do you will have to have it...best wide zoom I have ever used by a long shot.
I also love that the batteries are dirt cheap and are the same as those in my Q and Fp.
Oh and the Panasonic 20-60mm makes a Great 30-90mm on the CL and balances well on it.
I have the 18/2.8 and never use it for some reason. It's like it's almost too small.
Taken on the CL with 11-23mm
South Grafton, nsw, oz
Last edited:
trix4ever
Well-known
Further, I love the little 24/3.5 Sigma so much I use it on the CL, SL and Panny full frame cameras and bought another in sony mount for my A7s that sits in the centre console of my 4wd for any surprise photo opportunities. Wonderful lens.
shawn
Veteran
The 24/3.5 is a great little lens. Shares the tiny body with the 17mm and the 45mm f2.8.
Have you tried the Sigma 10-18mm on the CL? That is a DC DN lens but is *tiny*.
Have you tried the Sigma 10-18mm on the CL? That is a DC DN lens but is *tiny*.
trix4ever
Well-known
I was going to get the 10-18mm but found an 11-23mm for only about 50% more and could not help myself. No regrets at all, best wide zoom ever but I must admit it's a bit big compared to the Sigma but I find it handy going out to 23mm rather than 18mm.
I'm still praying that Sigma brings out an L-mount aps-c body for all these lenses, preferably with a foveon sensor. Well, I can dream.
I'm still praying that Sigma brings out an L-mount aps-c body for all these lenses, preferably with a foveon sensor. Well, I can dream.
shawn
Veteran
If another foveon comes out it is supposed to be full frame but that could change.
You could always use the fp L with APS-C lenses. It has plenty of resolution (25 megapixels in APS-C crop) and has a more sophisticated crop mode compared to simple FF or APS-C.
I don't have any APS-C lenses to test it but you might be able to get wider than typical if they cover a little more than APS-C and you set a lesser crop. It will even let you set a crop and a different aspect ratio. I've been shooting a lot of 1x1 in the Sigma. Would be very cool if the 10-18 would cover FF 1x1.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I used the Leica CL for several years and it always performed well. Whether it is an upmarket Panasonic or not is irrelevant to me; it is a very nice camera and makes lovely photographs.
Never had any Sigma lenses; I used Leica and Voigtländer M-mount lenses on it. My 'standard kit' when traveling with it was a 21, 35, and 50, 70 or 90 mm lens set. Many others work beautifully as well. I chose to stick to relatively compact and lightweight lenses, in keeping with the camera, and most of the L-mount lenses are somewhat bulky.
G
Never had any Sigma lenses; I used Leica and Voigtländer M-mount lenses on it. My 'standard kit' when traveling with it was a 21, 35, and 50, 70 or 90 mm lens set. Many others work beautifully as well. I chose to stick to relatively compact and lightweight lenses, in keeping with the camera, and most of the L-mount lenses are somewhat bulky.
G
trix4ever
Well-known
They seem to be struggling with the full frame sensor, I've be happy with an aps-c sensor from the dp quattro or merrill...
I have an Fp that I just withdrew from ebay as I can't bear to get rid of it, although I now wish I had bought the Fp-l to use my CL lenses on.
I tested your theory just now and on the Fp it is impossible to override the dc crop with aps-c lenses and when you open the image in lightroom you cannot get the full frame back so my 1:1 image was very lo res.
My biggest use for the Fp was taking advantage of the color shading correction with my 21/1.8 and 15/4.5 iii voigtlanders. The sensor cover glass must be quite thin as the 15mm in particular is crisp to the corners at f4.5 and the colour correction is perfect. No cyan drift in the edges at all.
Of course then I got the 17mm sigma and have hardly used anything else.
shawn
Veteran
Or the APS-H sensor. I'd actually love it if they brought back the sd Quattro H body and make it L mount. I had one of them and it was a nice body, just didn't like the huge SA mount lenses. The whole front panel comes off which is really what they need along with the firmware for the L mount lenses. I think I read that the manufacturer of those sensors is gone now though.
I don't think the fp has the same crop zoom feature as the fp L. It looks like it is possible in the menu (turn off AUTO on the Lower Limit) but want to confirm that.
The color shading correction is a great firmware feature. If the Foveon comes out that will be an extremely useful feature. I adapted a few lenses to the sd Quattro H (Rokinon 14mm) and they had shading problems. I haven't tried my Voigtlander 12mm on the Sigma yet but will give it a shot. The 17mm is very good, totally usable all the way to the corners even wide open.
trix4ever
Well-known
Leica CL with 18-50mm f2.8 Sigma dc dn
trix4ever
Well-known
Another with the 18-50mm on my CL, both this and the above were taken in Tenterfield, northern NSW, Oz
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Here are a few hundred (mostly) Leica CL photos I've posted: "Leica CL" search ... I say "mostly" because the search engine on Flickr seems to pick up a few other hits at random. 🤷♂️
G
Michael Markey
Veteran
I`ve used a CL for a number of years mostly with the native 18/23/35/60 and 55 -135.
I`ve also used it with my M glass.
Just recently I`ve been using it with my 24 to 70 full frame lens for the Leica SL.
Like many I regret that they discontinued the camera .
Very versatile little body.
It gets more use than my SL2s
A mini M to complement my 246
I`ve just bought a leather half case for it today.
I`ve also used it with my M glass.
Just recently I`ve been using it with my 24 to 70 full frame lens for the Leica SL.
Like many I regret that they discontinued the camera .
Very versatile little body.
It gets more use than my SL2s
A mini M to complement my 246
I`ve just bought a leather half case for it today.
trix4ever
Well-known
If you're worried about how punchy the colours can be from the CL, try this for size...
Admittedly with the 11-23 again but the colour is more from the camera than the lens. I've posted this in b/w before but this version may be more fun.
Cooly Rocks festival, Gold Coast, QLD
Admittedly with the 11-23 again but the colour is more from the camera than the lens. I've posted this in b/w before but this version may be more fun.
Cooly Rocks festival, Gold Coast, QLD
DownUnder
Nikon Nomad
If you're worried about how punchy the colours can be from the CL, try this for size...
Admittedly with the 11-23 again but the colour is more from the camera than the lens. I've posted this in b/w before but this version may be more fun.
Cooly Rocks festival, Gold Coast, QLD
A marvelous image. Many thanks!!
Amazing how you got the entire cast of Muriel's Wedding out for this photo.