Summicron Itch

[raydm6]

Doesn't the * on Summicron indicate it is an early version evolved from the Summitar?

Summitar with an Asterisk...

HI, I don't know what to make of this; http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LEICA-RARE-SUMMITAR-LENS-WITH-ASTERIX-/321300584652?pt=UK_Photography_VintagePhotography_VintagePhotoAccessories&hash=item4acf01d8cc Any comments, anyone? Regards, David

rangefinderforum.com

 

[mdarnton]

"Luckily" mine is in the 136xxxx batch, but I've never seen or heard that it was in any way different to the earlier ones (besides the whole radioactive thing, anyway).

Mine is a 115xxxx, and it's fine. It's my favorite lens in the winter because I can carry my camera under my arm, under my coat, keeping it warm and hidden with no bulk, but take in out in a couple of seconds by unclipping my Strapateer strap.

Lately I've been sporting a very early chrome Canon 50/1.8 and it's fine.

I have a version 3, the "bad" one, and it's fine.
Mostly I like to use my Nokton 50/1.1 and it's fine.

People spend too much time peeping at pixels for nitpicking, not enough time looking at pictures for enjoyment, IMO.

Here's a nice Summicron collapsible thread: Summicron collapsible 50mm

 

[Godfrey]

I have the Summicron-M 50 (recent, dont know if it's V4). It's a very good lens. I also have the LTM Color-Skopar 50/2.5 which is also a very good lens.

I recently bought the Heliar Classic 50/1.5 VM, and am testing it presently. It produces more variable imaging qualities than either of the other two, which can be dialed in via the aperture. So far, I'm liking it quite a lot: it reminds me of my Summilux 35 v2 with respect to the imaging qualities.

From my perspective, there's not much to dislike about the Summicron 50mm. It does a very good job all across the range.

G

 

[Ororaro]

Ko.Fe, I really like you, why would
I not?
Sure, you sometimes come across as a Big Bear, but that’s fine 🐻

I’ve often been mislabeled and misunderstood on the internet, and I largely stopped caring around 2004…

 

[Ororaro]

I have in my possession three summitars, two like-new, and four collapsible Summicrons, one Mint+++, one radioactive and two LTM in very nice shaoe but with marks.

They all got cleaned and completely CLA’d. As with the notorious V4-V5 haze creeping on lens element #2, the summicron and summitar have this crazy haze behind element #1 which is imperceptible because it’s so uniform. But once you wipe a part of it, it’s like day and night. I believe you recover at least 1/2 stop of light after cleaning a summicron V1 and a Summitar.

I haven’t tested the summicron v1 and summitar’ performance per se. I have shot over 100 negatives during summers 2022 and 2023 with the summicron 50mm V1. Those negatives are in my printing queue and I shall get to them somewhere in 2027. I am expecting nothing short of great surprises and awe.

 

[Ororaro]

Summar, I have two, completely cla’d.
One is completely scratched, so much it competes, and Wins(!) agains any Thambar out there. I can’t say if I like it or if it makes me sick, looking at those pictures.

The second summar is in regular shape, uncoated. Low contrast. Will not use it on color.

My summitars, one if them is coated Purple, a late model and Like-New. Its performance woth color film is very good.

The thing with me is that I use and shuffle through all my lenses. My 3 books exhibit images from my whole collection, even the dyptich are from wildly different lenses. Funny, though, the whole body of work fits together tightly. Probably because the variety is so varied that it becomes a flow on its own.

 

[Godfrey]

I have the Summicron-M 50 (recent, dont know if it's V4). It's a very good lens. I also have the LTM Color-Skopar 50/2.5 which is also a very good lens.

I recently bought the Heliar Classic 50/1.5 VM, and am testing it presently. It produces more variable imaging qualities than either of the other two, which can be dialed in via the aperture. So far, I'm liking it quite a lot: it reminds me of my Summilux 35 v2 with respect to the imaging qualities.

From my perspective, there's not much to dislike about the Summicron 50mm. It does a very good job all across the range.

Okay, I was curious about these versions, so I did a little research. Seems mine (serial number 4095xxx) was produced in 2008-2009 according to the Leica Wiki and is thus a "version 5" lens according to the chart that Ken Rockwell published, originally in 2010.

All I can say is that it seems a fine performer to my eye. I'm not too fond of the built-in collapsible lens hood, so I most often use it with a nice aftermarket screw in lens hood.

G

 

[Rikard]

Update: So the thread started with me buying a v4 on ebay.
I then cancelled the order, mostly because delivery time would be too long. The next day I found a v5 locally for 1000USD with warranty still active. The seller changed his mind. I then jumped on a bargain v3 which I got the next day. Currently shooting a roll tri-x with it 🙂

 

[raid]

Update: So the thread started with me buying a v4 on ebay.
I then cancelled the order, mostly because delivery time would be too long. The next day I found a v5 locally for 1000USD with warranty still active. The seller changed his mind. I then jumped on a bargain v3 which I got the next day. Currently shooting a roll tri-x with it 🙂

Congratulations on getting the V3!

 

[Rikard]

Congratulations on getting the V3!

Thank you 🙂 I’m sure I would have been fine with either version. But the v3 feels really nice. And the 0.7 m MFD is great compared with 0.9 for the zeiss sonnar. I enjoy getting close and fill the frame.

 

[wlewisiii]

Enjoy. I still like older lenses than that personally but that's my thing. I'm glad you have a lens you're enjoying and making images with - and _that_ is what it's really all about 😀

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I appreciate that there are some lens qualities that are subtle and difficult to illustrate on line, but you’re in danger of starting an internet myth that no-one can substantiate.

Nope. I'm not the only one to notice some lenses been flat on bw film. Including the one in this thread.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I also prefer the Summar over the Summitar. More interesting rendering, slightly more compact, plenty sharp, and uses regular A36 filters instead of the weird Summitar-only filters. Of course, it's uncoated, but I actively prefer that these days. And by the time you get to a coated Summitar, you might as well just have a collapsible Summicron - it's a better lens in every way. But:

I had no problem to purchase not expensive filter adapter for Summitar. But Summitar is humongous lens for collapsible.

 

[chuckroast]

Update: So the thread started with me buying a v4 on ebay.
I then cancelled the order, mostly because delivery time would be too long. The next day I found a v5 locally for 1000USD with warranty still active. The seller changed his mind. I then jumped on a bargain v3 which I got the next day. Currently shooting a roll tri-x with it 🙂

I have a V3 that I use on my M bodies. But for LTMs I much prefer the Voigtlander Color-Skopars to the legacy 'Crons. They render more sharply and with better contrast. I find the legacy Leica lenses to be low contrast and lacking snap in the final image. Obviously, this is a matter of taste.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

In my opinion the Elmar-M 50mm f2.8 (in chrome) is the best Leica standard lens for the M-Leicas. The build quality is unparalleled and the optical quality is the best I've ever seen. Bokeh is gorgeous. Don't confuse this lens with the 50mm f2.8 from the 1950s, as that is one of the worst Leica lenses.

I really liked its rendering on bw film. But with filter and hood it was a horn.

 

[Bill Blackwell]

... I then jumped on a bargain v3 which I got the next day. Currently shooting a roll tri-x with it 🙂

I've only owned one v3 Summicron; it was permanently mated to my (also first and only) M5. Its longer focusing throw makes it easier to nail fine detail wide-open. It's a good lens; I'm sure you'll be happy with the results.

 

[Jonathan R]

Nope. I'm not the only one to notice some lenses been flat on bw film. Including the one in this thread.

But none of you can explain or demonstrate what you mean by ‘flat on bw film’? It’s just that I don’t see anything that could fit this description.

 

[chuckroast]

But none of you can explain or demonstrate what you mean by ‘flat on bw film’? It’s just that I don’t see anything that could fit this description.

My experience with both the LTM 50mm f/3.5 Elmar and Collapsible Summicron 50mm f/2 is that they are noticeably less contrasty than their modern counterparts. That is, they inherently have a "flatter" look. To some extent, this can be overcome by development and printing/scanning techniques, but they are definitely not a contrasty as their modern counterparts.

For this reason, on Barnack bodies, I favor the Voigtlander Color-Skopars which are every bit as sharp but have visibly better contrast. At least for monochrome, the Color-Skopars hold their own against modern Leica M lenses like my 50mm f/2 V3 Summicron or 35mm f/2 Summicron ASPH. (No idea about how they do with color.)

The one exception is my old uncoated collapsible 50mm f/3.5 uncoated Elmar. It definitiely has less contrast than a modern lens (mine was made in 1945), BUT ... that lack of coating also produces a wonderful glow when shooting that lens into specular highlights or bright light sources.

 

[CP93]

Every time I see this subject line I hear Blue Cheer.

“Ain’t no cure for the Summicron Blues…”

 

[Jonathan R]

My experience with both the LTM 50mm f/3.5 Elmar and Collapsible Summicron 50mm f/2 is that they are noticeably less contrasty than their modern counterparts. That is, they inherently have a "flatter" look. To some extent, this can be overcome by development and printing/scanning techniques, but they are definitely not a contrasty as their modern counterparts.

For this reason, on Barnack bodies, I favor the Voigtlander Color-Skopars which are every bit as sharp but have visibly better contrast. At least for monochrome, the Color-Skopars hold their own against modern Leica M lenses like my 50mm f/2 V3 Summicron or 35mm f/2 Summicron ASPH. (No idea about how they do with color.)

The one exception is my old uncoated collapsible 50mm f/3.5 uncoated Elmar. It definitiely has less contrast than a modern lens (mine was made in 1945), BUT ... that lack of coating also produces a wonderful glow when shooting that lens into specular highlights or bright light sources.

Thank you for that, I appreciate you troubling to explain in plain English! However, the comment by @Ko.Fe was specifically about the v4 Summicron being flat on bw film.