Trade M3 for M4?

chuckroast said:
Interesting. Any idea why a cocked camera loads more reliably?
Click to expand...
I've never bothered to explore how the mechanism works exactly, but this is my guess as to what's happening. The rewind lever disengages the forward drive sprocket, which is re-engaged when the cocking lever is next used. The cocking lever turns the take-up spool, and has powerful leverage. Seems to me that the grip of the tulip isn't strong enough on its own to pull the film, rather the drive sprocket must be engaged to pull the film through the gate using the sprocket holes. If you load before the sprocket is re-engaged, the next stroke of the lever may turn the take-up spool before the drive sprocket clicks into engagement, causing the leader to slip out of the tulip and lie uselessly alongside, which is where you'll find it.
 
Jonathan R said:
I've never bothered to explore how the mechanism works exactly, but this is my guess as to what's happening. The rewind lever disengages the forward drive sprocket, which is re-engaged when the cocking lever is next used. The cocking lever turns the take-up spool, and has powerful leverage. Seems to me that the grip of the tulip isn't strong enough on its own to pull the film, rather the drive sprocket must be engaged to pull the film through the gate using the sprocket holes. If you load before the sprocket is re-engaged, the next stroke of the lever may turn the take-up spool before the drive sprocket clicks into engagement, causing the leader to slip out of the tulip and lie uselessly alongside, which is where you'll find it.
Click to expand...

I think that is all correct as written, but I have seen this problem even with the camera cycled so as to reengage the drive sprockets. The only thing I have found that seems to help is bending the end of the film to grab the tulip more authoritatively. I have never had this problem on the M6. It seems to be M4-specific.
 
chuckroast said:
I think that is all correct as written, but I have seen this problem even with the camera cycled so as to reengage the drive sprockets. The only thing I have found that seems to help is bending the end of the film to grab the tulip more authoritatively. I have never had this problem on the M6. It seems to be M4-specific.
Click to expand...
Ah, OK. My experience is with an M6.
 
KoNickon said:
Oh I have! And with the M5 the rewind crank doesn't turn, so you don't have that immediate feedback that the film isn't winding on.
Click to expand...

Wait. I do that all the time on the M5. I load the film and advance it sufficiently to ensure that the sprockets are engaged. I attach the bottom and crank the takeup until it gets snug. Then I watch the takeup as I advance and fire the camera to get to the first exposure.
 
chuckroast said:
One other point about the M4 - I hate, hate, hate the quick load takeup spool on that camera. For some reason, I struggle to get it to grip the film. Both the removable reel on the M2 and the quick load on the M5 are leagues better.

Is it just me?
Click to expand...
I couldn’t say if it’s “just you,” but I used both an M2 and M3 years ago—the M2, equipped with a 35mm Summicron for nearly twenty-five years. Currently, I use an M4 (and have two M4-Ps that I acquired years ago when I needed the 28mm frame lines and the hot-shoe.

The only times that I’ve had problems with the QL mechanism on the M4s is when I try to “help things along.” My current method is:

Remove the baseplate, insert the cassette, gently pull the leader and ensure that the leader extends deeply in the “tulip.” Note, I do NOT open the rear panel during the loading process.

[The original instruction book for the M4 and M4-P models provided an illustration that shows the tip of the leader barely intruding into the tulip. I have been told (by people who might know) that this was done to ensure that the film didn’t “snap” when loading in very cold conditions. Within normal operating conditions, the leader may extend completely across the tulip. I find that having the leading edge touching the opposing blade is sufficient.]

Unless necessary, I do not open the rear-plate. The only times I’ve had to open the backplate is when a film “twists” and locks up during the advance. Naturally, I do this in a changing bag.

And that’s about it. Attach the baseplate, advance for two frames, activate the rewind until I feel confident that the film’s engaged and make sure that the rewind knob turns as I advance the subsequent frames.

All said: I do miss the loading mechanism on the M2,3 bodies because they were dependable, but I do appreciate the “fast-loading” mechanism out in the field.
 
I like the quickload, never had any trouble loading with it. Leica offered a quickload kit as a do-it-yourself aftermarket conversion, and that's how I modified the used M2 body I had just bought in 1967 at a downtown Seattle camera shop for $150. The kit was on the suggestion of the salesman, and at the same time on his recommendation I also bought a v.1 35 Summicron brand new for $164.50. Still use that gear.

I have had trouble seeing the 35mm lens framelines in the M2 viewfinder wearing glasses. I've found the goggled f/2.8 Summaron makes the M2 VF 35mm framelines much easier to use.
 
I absolutely hate the plastic tipped m4 wind lever, both my M4-p and M6 0.85 have M3 levers fitted. Bought them off DAG, took one minute to change.
 
trix4ever said:
I absolutely hate the plastic tipped m4 wind lever, both my M4-p and M6 0.85 have M3 levers fitted. Bought them off DAG, took one minute to change.
Click to expand...
Did the same with my M4-P, when I still had it. Unfortunately, there seem to be different versions of the all-metal advance levers. In my case, it was a tiny bit too long and hit the shutter-speed dial. Due to my habit to let the advance lever switch recoil, it nicely hammered a pattern into the knurled side of the shutter-speed dial.
 
maddoc said:
Did the same with my M4-P, when I still had it. Unfortunately, there seem to be different versions of the all-metal advance levers. In my case, it was a tiny bit too long and hit the shutter-speed dial. Due to my habit to let the advance lever switch recoil, it nicely hammered a pattern into the knurled side of the shutter-speed dial.
Click to expand...

Then you got the 'real thing', because both my M3's have those same dimples :)

But Leica designed it that way. It's a form of statistical logging of your most-used shutter speeds.

Since it's hard to get a mechanical shutter accurate at all speeds, this allows a Leica service technician to pay more attention to adjusting the speeds most used by the owner.

:sneaky:
 
maddoc said:
Did the same with my M4-P, when I still had it. Unfortunately, there seem to be different versions of the all-metal advance levers. In my case, it was a tiny bit too long and hit the shutter-speed dial. Due to my habit to let the advance lever switch recoil, it nicely hammered a pattern into the knurled side of the shutter-speed dial.
Click to expand...
My MP has one of those metal levers but it hits the edge of the shoe. I don’t let the lever recoil but the shoe still whacked a little divot in the lever.
 
B.J.Scharp said:
Then you got the 'real thing', because both my M3's have those same dimples :)

But Leica designed it that way. It's a form of statistical logging of your most-used shutter speeds.

Since it's hard to get a mechanical shutter accurate at all speeds, this allows a Leica service technician to pay more attention to adjusting the speeds most used by the owner.

:sneaky:
Click to expand...
This is just weird enough that it could be authentic Leica lore.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom