kkdanamatt
Well-known
The M5 is the last bench-made rangefinder coming out of Wetzlar.
The accuracy of the M5 light meter is unmatched by any other Leica rangefinder body.
The only downside, in my opinion, is its size.
If the M5 size or shape turns you off, then vote for the M2, with its magnificent uncluttered viewfinder.
The accuracy of the M5 light meter is unmatched by any other Leica rangefinder body.
The only downside, in my opinion, is its size.
If the M5 size or shape turns you off, then vote for the M2, with its magnificent uncluttered viewfinder.
Adding a Leicameter to an M2 makes it about the same size as an M5. So I'd rather have the M5 with the shutter speeds and analog meter needle in the vf. 
Along with easier film loading with the tulip spool.
Along with easier film loading with the tulip spool.Steve751
Newbie
I also own a G1 with the 28mm, 45mm, 90mm, and also a Konica Hexar RF with the Voightlander 15mm, 28mm, 40mm, and Hexanon 90mm. I'm also a retiree that will likely never have the justification to shell out for a Leica M. I almost always pick up the Konica for 35mm film shoots as the quick shooting experience plus the lens lineup suit my needs perfectly. I do love the G1 with it's Zeiss G glass, and I'm impressed every time I take it out.
It's true - there's the added risk it will die before we do - but then everything on this earth has an expiration and the old manual machines eventually run out of spare parts.. - Enjoy it while you have it.
38Deardorff
Established
I once bought an M4-2 from a top camera store for $425. Honestly the best Leica M for the money would have been the first Leica, an M2 I bought as a university student for the sum of $175...... or the new black paint M4 I bought as a grad student for $650 (3 months wages) If i had kept them....they'd still be working. Or the original black paint M2 I bought in Paris in 1998 for ....... $700 Cdn/$500 USD....
Any Leica you buy and keep is a great deal. Unfortunately we get hooked on the photography habit and spend more money flipping equipment....
than making photographs.
Honestly the best used Leica is the Leica CL with both lenses I was given by a close friend who no longer shoots film. Built in 1973 and travelled the world....the meter still works and the shutter speeds are accurate though it's never been serviced. Some people pointed out that the CL wasn't up to the normal Leica build quality.....but after 51 years it's still ticking....(as are many a Nikon, Nikkormat, Pentax etc).
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Out to Lunch
Ventor
The M2 but only if and when bought from a reputable dealer. On eBay it's a crapshoot.
Rayt
Nonplayer Character
I managed to find a Tom Abrahamsson M2 Rapidwinder so will look for a nice M2 soon. I bought one from Tom back in those days but didn’t keep it because I ultimately preferred the M7 for the AE. And I didn’t know he made them in very limited numbers.
chuckroast
Well-known
I was able to buy a very nice M2 that had just been CLAed by DAG (with proof) from eBay for about $1200 18mo or so. I realize there has been some price inflation, but if you get a clean/decent M2, add $600 for the DAG overhaul and you have the best bang-for-the-buck film M out there. As I mentioned in a prior post, I have used M4s and M5s extensively, and metering aside - the M2 does nearly everything those cameras do every bit as well for 40% less money (ish). Love my M2.
38Deardorff
Established
Much as I love the M2, i find the M2/M4 price overlap somewhat...and without having them both in hand it's hard to tell the difference. You can find nice looking M2 from $1000-$2000 USD & M4s from $1500-$2000. If i wasn't all set with Leica Ms I'd be happy with either one i would stumble across. If you can live with a black chrome M4 they seem to be as low $2600.
chuckroast
Well-known
As it happens, I have owned a IIIf for many decades and within the last few years got an M2 (because I wanted an M body), and M5 (because I wanted one of these from the day they were announced and I got a gorgeous 50 Jahre Jubilee edition) and an M4 (just overhauled by Shery Krauter and made available at a very competitive price).
Do I need them all (or any of them)? No. But I wanted to try them all out. Frankly, notwithstanding it's absolutely pristine condition and operation, the first one to go is going to be the M4. It's a really nice machine, but it lacks the character of both the M2 and M5. Of course, everyone's mileage varies ...
38Deardorff
Established
CR there is so much personal preference. All things being equal, i'd love to have back the black M2 i sold. I've owned at least 4 black paint M4s (two bought new) and pretty much every model except the M7. This one i got from Brooktaw (Chris Miles) because i just happened to be online when he casually said he was going to sell it. I quickly sold my MP.
DAG did some work on it, and to me it's got all the character i could ever want. Considering it cost less than the used MP (& tens of thousands less than the current black M2 prices!) i'm happy with the consolation prize.
Considering i prefer printing from bigger negatives and could happily live without a 35mm camera, black Ms are a bit of a character weakness for me.
38Deardorff
Established
Congratulations.... a very scarce piece!
chuckroast
Well-known
I'm right there with you. I too prefer bigger negs but find Leicas a deep character weakness I seem not to be able to overcome
Even worse, with the right optics, the IIIf holds its own against the Ms. Here something I took a month or so ago with the IIIf and 21mm f/4 Color Skopar:
I am curious about the prices you're seeing on black M2s. Were there original factory black M2s that are now selling for nosebleed prices? I ask because M2 repaints are going for 2.5-3K-ish on eBay.
38Deardorff
Established
Factory black M2s are now being sold in the $30,000 USD range....& original black paint M4s for half that.I'm right there with you. I too prefer bigger negs but find Leicas a deep character weakness I seem not to be able to overcome
Even worse, with the right optics, the IIIf holds its own against the Ms. Here something I took a month or so ago with the IIIf and 21mm f/4 Color Skopar:
View attachment 4863189
I am curious about the prices you're seeing on black M2s. Were there original factory black M2s that are now selling for nosebleed prices? I ask because M2 repaints are going for 2.5-3K-ish on eBay.
Repaints are considered pale imitations and sell in that $1700-3k ish range. Most the the repaints aren't repaints of originals (bad enough as that would be)....but de-chromed chrome cameras and the serial #s would identify them as such. Repaints are pretty much considered as with antique furniture, vintage guitars, vintage cars....... killers of value.
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chuckroast
Well-known
38Deardorff
Established
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Um ... The M3 RF runs down to 1m (3.32 ft). Closer than 1m with a 50mm lens is prone to a lot of foreshortening when you're doing portraiture. Remember that perspective is a function of distance... Portraits of adult humans are normally made at distances of 5 to 7 feet (~1.5 to 2.5 m) to achieve a pleasing perspective. If you want a tighter crop on your portrait subject, you need a longer lens ... 75 to 90 mm is generally considered ideal for head and shoulders type portraiture on 35mm format.
You can get away with portraits of children at somewhat shorter distances, due to how adults normally interact with children, but rarely less than 1m.
G
raid
Dad Photographer
I used to own a Leica 4-MOT in black. I sold it. It may be worth a lot now. I am 90% sure it was black.
38Deardorff
Established
Raid, I never saw/heard of a chrome one.... i recall the production was 1967-1970...all black paint models.
raid
Dad Photographer
Thanks. This is good to know.
I bought it from a local Navy officer who then just got divorced and they needed the money to split it up. The MD was missing. I sold it to KEH.
38Deardorff
Established
Apparently the navy bought most of them & DAG (Don Goldberg)'s father Norman had the motors manufactured!