First Tri-X pushing experience

[alexz]

A week ago made an endeavor of shooting Tri-X pushing it to 1600 for development in HC-110. That was an anual performance show of the gymnastics school my little dauther used to go to.
I followed the recommendation of our fellows here on the forums and used HC-110 dill H at 20 deg. C for 50 minutes with gentle agitation (even 5 minutes).

The results aren't that bad, I'd say acceptable or probably even more. given this is my first pushing attempt in B&W world...however, examining the results, I tend to believe the scans are a bit on the excessive contrast side. have few attached for you to check them out.

I think I'll make another attempt with Tri-X at 1600 in HC-110, however now will shorten the time to about 40 minutes (-20%). I hope this will not have much effect on shadows, but rather will restrain the highlights a bit...

The grain is considerable (visually) on close-ups and certainly on tight crops, but I guess this is something to cope with (or get used to) when pushing 2 stops any B&W film....

Just out of curiosity - will Tmax 400 pushed to 1600 exhibit less grain in HC-110 ? Or probably alternatively stay with Tri-X pushed 2 stops but developing in Microphen or similar developer intended for push-processing ?

 

[alexz]

Another few (crops)...

 

[iml]

They look pretty decent. Increased contrast and grain is to be expected, but yes, it's certainly worth experimenting with timings, Tri-X is pretty forgiving stuff, it's quite hard to completely screw it up. Xtol 1+1, Tri-X shot at 1600 and processed for anything from 13 to 15 mins at 20 degrees, seems to always give acceptable results, the shorter time does indeed give slightly lower contrast and grain, as expected. Never used HC-110, so can't help on that.

Ian

 

[lZr]

Nice compositions Alex, but lack of details in highlights (ya, contrast is too much). Some shots are horizontal flipped (Read the Hebrew).
Good test you did. Dil H is 32 min according to DevChart (twice dil B in time and dilution). Interesting

 

[alexz]

Thank you guys.
Highlights is exactly what I meant indeed. The exaggerated contrast just killed the details. I will try 20% shorter dev. time next 1600 push try...
Horizontal fliping is something I'm prone to. Often I just forget the correct horizontal orientation and find myself hard to recall when the composition is more or less symmetric from left to right...How do you lazar know when the frames are flipped ?

Xmm, I wasn't aware DevChart contains Tri-X push times....will check it out...

 

[lZr]

Alex, it is easy sometimes. Reading the signs, or remembering the east - west...Not always working😱

 

[40oz]

Not bad at all. I use D-76 1+1 for maybe 14 minutes. Those 50 minute long dev times with highly diluted HC-110 are not something I've ever wanted, even if it does work. You might try dilution B for only 16 minutes or so.

 

[rich815]

Personally I find that contrast and blown highlights unacceptable. You should really shoot it at 1600 and try it in Diafine. You'll get MUCH better results.

 

[alexz]

Well, I'll be willing to work out my approach to high speed pushing since I may need that due to my habit to shoot illumination lacking performances, so I intend to try out different combinations (right now for Tri-X) to settle on a single one that will produce good results with little variance in developer types.
I'll try yet again shorter times with HC-110 dill. H, dill B and probaly Diafine given its local availability.

 

[feenej]

I agree with Rich. Diafine is fine.

 

[spyder2000]

In one of the first shots, I see a light source on the floor. Is it the case that even needed to push your film to that extent?

Diafine does a great job on Tri-X with no fog at all. And even I can keep up with the time needed. 3 mins in each solution. I couldn't imagine keeping up with 50 minutes developing time!

You can have a lot of fun with Tri-X uprated.

 

[rogue_designer]

I use 1:100 instead of H, for about the same time.

I gently invert 3 or 4 times every 5 minutes... no other agitation. That seems to help control the contrast.

It might be that you would be able to save some of the highlights in scanning... my experience with TriX is that it's very hard to totally block up highlights.

 

[Igor.Burshteyn]

interesting - I was doing about the same, shooting annual gynmastic show of my little doughter, but with OM4ti/18mm/50mm/135mm setup on kodak 400cn. I didn't need to push it too much - actually it was 1/30sec@f4 in midtones, quite handholdable.

 

[40oz]

I think you blew out the highlights by developing too long. The light looks contrasty to start with, given direct lighting on the performers and comparatively little in the background. By adjusting levels in photoshop, it's clear you got all the detail in the shadows, so the exposure was fine. The results are definitely acceptable, but I think they'd be better with a little less time in the developer next time.

I don't think there's anything wrong with HC-110 for this, I'm just not seeing why a person would want such a high dilution and long dev times. IMHO, the only reason for high HC-110 dilutions is to get an acceptably long dev time (i.e. over 5 minutes) at higher temps vs. dilutions A & B. I'm not denying there is an advantage to increased dilution at some point, but cooking your film for close to an hour just seems like total overkill. I personally draw the line at 20 minutes. Pushing Tri-X to 1600 is cake - no extraordinary measures are required at all.

 

[alexz]

Yes, you all are right, I'm just a dumb one messing out with dillution vs dev time relationship. I took the combination recommended by rogue-designer (thank you), but messed up making dill H instead of his recommended 1:100 for 50 minutes..:bang:

What a stupid one am I...🙁

Next time I'll try mush shorter times (30-40 minutes) in H and also will nevertheless try 1:100 for 50 minutes. Besides, dillution B may also appeal to me for shorter times (I estimate around 16-20 minutes).

Yes, the lighting was really hard - harsh color spots dancing really wildy in the hall. In order to get even barely handholdable speeds - had to be pushed at least to 1600 most of the time. The situation almost ressembles the illuminaiton typical for rock concert performance. I'm really suprized I made though it with my exposure estimation aided by my M6 metering off the floor surface and manual adjustments...😉

 

[Igor.Burshteyn]

heh, that's a problem with conventional darkroom - no second chance to get it right :/ at least not with same roll.

 

[40oz]

Yes, you all are right, I'm just a dumb one messing out with dillution vs dev time relationship. I took the combination recommended by rogue-designer (thank you), but messed up making dill H instead of his recommended 1:100 for 50 minutes..:bang:

What a stupid one am I...🙁

au contraire mon frere! (spelling?)

You're not dumb, you asked around, did some research, and you got decent negs on your first try. You're anything but dumb at that point.

I've used the method rogue_designer mentions, and the shots looked fine. I'm just not that patient and have something of a short attention span 🙂 I also get good results the way I've been doing it with D-76 1:1.

I've attached an example done rogue_designer's way - not bad at all, IMHO. My only beef with that kind of stand development is what appears to be some sort of lighter streak above the darker parts of the image, such as the smokestack, parts of the roof, and the highline pole.

 

[drewbarb]

Not bad, but you're right- you will see better results in a developer designed to increase speed. Microphen is my favorite. I used to shoot Tri-X at 1600 all the time and process in Microphen (full strength) @ 70 degrees F for 13 minutes. Grain and tonality are both very similar to tri-X @ 400 done in D-76- pretty good for a 2 stop push. Fastest I ever pushed Tri-X was to 12,800, run in Microphen; I can't recommend it for fine work, but you will get a neg you can work with.

Good luck!