2 versions digital B&W converted portrait: which one?

[kuuan]

there are many very experienced film shooters here, and often I read comments about qualities of B&W film resp. of what digital 'de-saturated' might be lacking.
Took this 'street' portrait last night on digital Sony A7 and made two version with SilverFX Pro. Editing seemed only slightly different but the outcomes are quite distinct from each other. I am really at a loss which one I prefer resp. what I should aim for a possibly better, third version

I am most grateful for any input / advice, thank you


Untitled by andreas, on Flickr


2nd version by andreas, on Flickr
taken with Canon LTM 1.4/50 on Sony A7
btw. this is the original frame, if you'd prefer a crop please also do suggest

 

[Keith]

The second one although it seems a bit highlighty has a lot more detail in the skin so of the two that's my choice. If you reduced the contrast a touch it would probably improve it slightly. Or maybe lift the shadows a bit and reduce exposure slightly.

 

[Vince Lupo]

I'm almost thinking somewhere in between. My eye seems to go right to the bright area on his forehead. Perhaps tone that area down a bit?

 

[Keith]

Here's a quick and dirty example of what I meant.

Maybe a bit of dodging with the background would improve it more.

 

[kuuan]

Here's a quick and dirty example of what I meant.

Maybe a bit of dodging with the background would improve it more.

oh, great! thank you very much Keith and Vince! before I refer to your suggestions, since you were so very kind to even do another version Keith, I just uploaded the color pic, it may serve as better base, it can be downloaded in full resolution:


color version by andreas, on Flickr

 

[calebarchie]

Combine them. Just put them over each other, second as a hidden layer mask. Then 'burn' (reveal) in areas you like from second at varying opacity. That way you are toning it down at the same time.

 

[kuuan]

I'm almost thinking somewhere in between. My eye seems to go right to the bright area on his forehead. Perhaps tone that area down a bit?

right! pretty much any 'film preset' of Silver FX Pro would even had lead to higher contrast again, and for the second versions I had reduced highlights but 'only' globally. According to histogram they should be alright, but I thought that monitor used will play a role here and had been curious if anyone would suggest to down highlights further, best I should make local adjustment of the forehead

 

[mfogiel]

It's obvious: the first one. The second one has a typical "digital-sick person" stamp all over it.

 

[kuuan]

Combine them. Just put them over each other, second as a hidden layer mask. Then 'burn' (reveal) in areas you like from second at varying opacity. That way you are toning it down at the same time.

I shall try to do that. But first I shall wait for more input, anyway will want to make the best out of this photo, making it a learning experience with the help of you experienced and helpful people 🙂

 

[kuuan]

It's obvious: the first one. The second one has a typical "digital-sick person" stamp all over it.

haha Marek, I had been curious if I would hear something along this line from a film connoisseurs!
the second version shown was the first conversion I had done, used a 'film simulation' of Silver FX Pro which, as usual, lead to a contrasty image which I then smoothened out a bit again.
The all black background, looking too manipulated, that had made me go back to try another version. I tried to keep more shades of grey in the face, making it look less dramatic to better fit the loving expression. I really was curious if film lovers would appreciate that second, brighter version, the first one seen

 

[Alberti]

for me the tonality preference is #2; but . . . this version has more details in it.
Take for instance the jaw that has too much local contrast imo.
And this is not nice, and gives the suggestion of having digitalitis (a dangerous dis-ease).
my 2¢
albert
[This was my reason to buy a Russian lens for portraits]

 

[karlin]

I prefer the 1st. more natural.

 

[kuuan]

trying to use your suggestions to improve:
the 2 combined, but opacity not locally chosen ( will have to find out how to do this first ) but 'globally' just 13% of the more harsh version and resulting image slightly reduced brightness and contrast


ver4 by andreas, on Flickr

a complete new version, near to what Silver FX calls 'neutral' + exposure + contrast reduced a bit


ver5 by andreas, on Flickr

I am on a 15" notebook, do all my editing on it's 'uncalibrated' monitor and hardly ever get to see a photo of mine on any bigger and better monitor.
Another reason why I shall be able to learn from any input, thank you again

 

[ABrosig]

I was going to say version 1 clearly, until I scanned down and saw version 4. I'm thinking, and this goes contrary to most of what I was taught, but toning down the contrast some helps. Definitely want some detail in the background to give him someplace to be. I took the liberty:

[/url]26426274702_775b208248_b by Andrew Brosig, on Flickr[/IMG]

The way I convert to grayscale is to first convert to LAB color, then work on the lightness channel only. When I get the image close to where I want it, I trash the a and b channels, then convert to grayscale and fine tune the image.

Another trick I learned, re. the highlight area on the forehead, is to do a duplicate layer, then use the healing brush to duplicate from a non-burned-out area onto the burned out area. I then adjust the opacity of the repaired layer until the duplicated sections blend well.

Hope this helps.

 

[jesse1dog]

Happen to like the colour version best!

 

[sojournerphoto]

I prefer the first version by far. The second has for me, far too much local contrast and global contrast. I'd tone down (burn) the forehead in the first a bit too. You need to make a separate call about the background and whether you want it deep and dark or for some information to come through.

 

[kuuan]

thank you so much for all your thoughts and suggestions!

I shall come back to ABrosig and his great version. Thank you very much for that, I must try to copy and understand what you did first.
soujourns suggestion sounds like the most apparent, I should try that.

this has gone far beyond 2 B&W versions already:

Happen to like the colour version best!

Jesse after uploading the color version I also have been thinking that I rather like it too. Just reworked the color version a bit, here obviously including cropping..how about that?


ver6 by andreas, on Flickr


ver7 by andreas, on Flickr

I am getting even more surprised how much the photo changes, and I am grateful for any, hopefully even more opinions and suggestions, thank you

 

[jesse1dog]

There can be so many versions from just one frame, and all will have their merits and de-merits. The three colour versions demonstrate that very clearly. The variety of subtle suggestions for the B&W original show that guys see things in very different ways - just as it should be imo. In the end what you decide is the most important, it's what appeals to you most. However haven't there been some interesting ideas?
Perhaps the picture is still too fresh - when after all was it taken?
I suggest that you now put it to one side for a month or so, and then have another look when the heightened emotion of the capture has receded a bit. Chances are that you will view it very differently.
Be interesting to me if you then bring back this thread.

 

[Vince Lupo]

Colour version is interesting, but the cast is really blue.

 

[kuuan]

There can be so many versions from just one frame, and all will have their merits and de-merits. The three colour versions demonstrate that very clearly. The variety of subtle suggestions for the B&W original show that guys see things in very different ways - just as it should be imo. In the end what you decide is the most important, it's what appeals to you most. However haven't there been some interesting ideas?
Perhaps the picture is still too fresh - when after all was it taken?
I suggest that you now put it to one side for a month or so, and then have another look when the heightened emotion of the capture has receded a bit. Chances are that you will view it very differently.
Be interesting to me if you then bring back this thread.

right! most kind, thank you so much for that.

I see it as a chance that I may learn:
The contrasty came first, then the brighter one. I am intrigued by the difference and I may learn from the expertise here, possibly from B&W film shooters. The 3rd B&W conversion, 'ver5', takes this further.

The photo is as fresh as can be. I am pleased by it but there aren't any 'heightened emotions' as implied, none that I'd want to loose. In the contrary, I hope that I won't forget the moment this beautiful man had given me. This photo will remind me of it and I believe that there is a good chance that viewing it might make someone else feel good too 😉