35mm lenses, what to do?

Dralowid

Michael
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I have a 35mm 2.8 Summaron which has served me well, very compact, just a little slow though inexpensive when I bought it.

In the quest for a little more speed, what should I do? Summilux or Summicron or something else?

Pre aspherical for compactness?

Or should I stay with what I have and save the money? It really is a nice little lens.

Any opinions welcome, even the most objective

Michael
 
If you're looking for the speed demon, the Cosina/Voigtlander 35mm f/1.2 Nokton is your lens. The thing is huge, though, and blocks the viewfinder a decent amount for most cameras. If you don't want THAT much speed, the Ultron f/1.7 with a LTM to M adapter is smaller and more compact. If you have to have Leica, I'd go with the 'cron for value.
 
I have both the v4 summicron and the CV 1.2. While my summicron is a fine lens I don't think it's any better than my Ultron at any give aperture. I actually think the CV is a little better built. Why I say that is my Summicron is developing play in the focusing helix and rattles. In close analysis of the problem it appears the focusing helix is wearing in a way that would indicate it is due to upward pressure on the focusing tab during focusing. My 50 tabbed summicron has done the same thing. Both will need to be rebuilt at some point. My 50 is now at the point it's difficult to focus closer than three feet. My Nokton is smoother, more solid and the focus is like butter. It's also very well finished. It's my understanding the CV 35 1.7 is even a better performer than the Nokton. If I were buying today I certainly would not put my money in Leica glass over any other brand without a true unbiased evaluation weighing value, build and performance.

I selsceted the Nokton over the Summilux asph not because of cost but because or performance. The Summilux has a very slight edge in performance but the Nokton has the speed advantage which is a big plus for my work.

One final note, I owned the v1 summilux 35 for many years and liked it very much with a few exceptions. The flare issue is a big problem if there are light sources in the frame. I had a number of images totally ruined while doing a shoot with president Nixon. There were intense light sources in the frame that caused flare like circles that totally obscured him. Fortunately I covered the shoot with different lenses and had some great images. Also the CV ,either one, is much sharper and handles flare much better. The summilux was a fine lens in the 60's and 70's but lens design has come a long way and the CV's way out perform the old summilux.

samples in my gallery of the summilux --- fire eater and others and the only Nokton shot is the house sitting on the suv from Katrina (not a true test of the low light performance)

About a week ago I shot some images just to see how it would handle flare. I shot at 1.2 in the dark at a carnival and had intense light sources from 1000 watt halogens direct into the lens. No flare problems at all, just a little ball of fuzz around the light. I will try and scan some and post them in the next day or so.

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=5045
 
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OK, so I have now read the 'Signature' thread from end to end.

I formally withdraw any stated interest in 35mm lenses and confirm that I have no desire to ditch my Summaron whatsoever, indeed I will never even look at another 35mm lens.

Unless...unless it were an early chrome Summilux...

Michael
 
The Summaron is a great lens. If you have the need to add, I would say the Summilux ASPH would be a good companion to this. The Summaron for it's smallness and a Lux for those times when having those two stops is a must.
 
I have the Summaron, and the CV 35mm Nokton and Ultron lenses. The CV Nokton and Ultron are sharper than the Summaron, but the Summaron has a sharpness/glow that gives very beautiful images. I wouldn't part with any of them. You can definately see some resolution fall-off at the edges with the Summaron. While my Summaron's (I have "M" and LTM mount) are nice and clear, many vintage Summarons have developed internal haze that degrades the image and doesn't give you all the Summaron can give. I dismantled and cleaned my LTM one, and it made a world of difference, but I do not recommend you do this on your own unless you are very adventurous. Better left to a skilled camera repair-person.
 
Dralowid said:
OK, so I have now read the 'Signature' thread from end to end.

I formally withdraw any stated interest in 35mm lenses and confirm that I have no desire to ditch my Summaron whatsoever, indeed I will never even look at another 35mm lens.

Unless...unless it were an early chrome Summilux...

Michael
I came to a similar conclusion a long time ago.

Richard
 
I have three 'cron 35s (v3, v3, v4) sitting on the shelf because the Summaron infatuation will not stop. 🙂 The 35/2.8 rendition is 20 years ahead of its time, but the build quality is old-world. Most of all, I love the ergonomics: tiny size, long throw, great DOF scale, aperture ring that comes right to your hand and with full click-stops. What's to improve?

Not as a replacement, but as a companion, I would consider the C/V Ultron, C/V Nokton monster, or 'lux ASPH. From posted images, these appear to have a compatible rendition (moderate contrast, really nice bokeh), plus you enjoy the speed when needed.
 
Apologies for the 35 signature thread. That got a bit out of hand. Anyways, I think you have the right idea. Why settle for only getting one stop more (Summaron -> Summicron), when you can go for 2 stops more! Summilux all the way 🙂
 
Dralowid said:
I have a 35mm 2.8 Summaron which has served me well, very compact, just a little slow though inexpensive when I bought it.

In the quest for a little more speed, what should I do? Summilux or Summicron or something else?
...
Or should I stay with what I have and save the money? It really is a nice little lens.
I feel the same way about my old 35 Summicron; I've had it forever and didn't pay much for it and I like its handling and performance. Why not hang onto your Summaron if it serves you well.... and then go wild and get a 35 Summilux ASPH too just for the speed and very very different look with exquisite sharpness and contrast? 😀
 
Crasis said:
Apologies for the 35 signature thread. That got a bit out of hand. Anyways, I think you have the right idea. Why settle for only getting one stop more (Summaron -> Summicron), when you can go for 2 stops more! Summilux all the way 🙂

No need to apologize, Crasis, I think I worked on the derailment that seemed impending to the same amount and I regret that as well, but the resolvement reached in the end overshadowed any harsh words imo. The upshot is that a clear picture about the lenses in question emerged.
 
jaapv said:
No need to apologize, Crasis, I think I worked on the derailment that seemed impending to the same amount and I regret that as well, but the resolvement reached in the end overshadowed any harsh words imo. The upshot is that a clear picture about the lenses in question emerged.

And an interesting discussion, to boot! Unfortunately, my interests in the thread now have nothing to do with how the lenses perform in the real world, and purely on how they perform theoretically. I'm actually very interested in whether the correction of aberrations from the aspherical elements helped the resolution in a non-contrast oriented way.

It should be obvious by now that you pretty much cannot go wrong with Leica lenses in the 35mm focal length. So for those who want to know which 35 to get, my answer would be any. The summicron is the best bang for the buck giving you decent speed, high resolution, and even the asph version is small! For more money, you can get more speed in a bigger form factor. For less money, less speed in a similar or smaller form factor.

That's the gist of it. That's the summary.

Actually, perhaps I should resummarize in a better fassion what I know so far about these 35mm lenses. Note, this is what I know so far and some of it may be wrong but it's a general guide.

Expensive, fast, and big: Summilux 35 asph. About as sharp as the 35/2 pre-asph with an extra very useable stop.

Not as expensive, fast, and not as big: Summilux 35 pre-asph. Holds all of the typical glamour of an older fast lens, ie. vignetting and not as high in resolution or contrast as a slower lens (summaron, summicron).

Medium price, medium speed and a decent size: Summicron 35 asph. Considered the sharpest little lens out there, though the debate is out on whether this is due more to the contrast than to the actual resolution of the lens.

Medium price, medium speed and small: Summicron 35 pre-asph. I'd expect the same people who like the Nokton 40 SC over the MC to like this lens over the asph, but so far that's not the case. In any case, the standard sharp Leica lens.

Lower price, lower speed and small: Summaron 35. Pretty much, when you go to slower lenses, you can expect them to be cheaper and just as tasty sharp as the faster lenses (if not better in some cases).

So you can choose between price, speed and size. You can optimize for 2 of those 3 variables, but not all 3 at once. Of course, for the summilux asph, you can only optimize for 1 of them. Speed, unless you like large lenses.

Yeah, there's lots of detail on all of the lenses that you can find if you search the web, for you to make a more critical choice, but if you know what you want from those 3 variables, you can't make a bad decision! They're all good!
 
crasis said:
Medium price, medium speed and a decent size: Summicron 35 asph. Considered the sharpest little lens out there, though the debate is out on whether this is due more to the contrast than to the actual resolution of the lens.

A question that appears due to the limited nature of the MTF. If one could compare the OTF, which is far more difficult to measure, indeed not available for many lenses, and hard to interpret anyway, this could be adressed far more objectively.
 
Summaron forever

Summaron forever

What's small, sharp, light, great color and has the most natural looking image and the greatest bokeh of all time? What is the perfect example of luck, right time and right place: the 2.8 Summaron.

It's been my normal lens since 1968 and nothing has come along that will make me lay out a ton of money for something better in the corners or one more f stop that has no soul.

The 2.8 Summaron is the most underated Leitz lens of all time and still one hell of a value.
 
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