50/1.1 MS-Sonnetar: the next cult lens?

Pardon my ignorance... I have been looking for some instructions on how to exactly dial in that Sonnetar setting but I am still lost. Would someone kindly guide me through on fine-tuning it on a digital body to be used on film? Thanks!

Get a notebook and cellphone camera. Pick a starting spot in the rear element using the little dots. Pick an aperture you will use often. Find a target about 2-3 meters with other objects close, slightly nearer and further. Fire! Chimp! did you hit it? Take a picture with a little piece of paper which has the aperture and the rear element with dots in view.

If you miss rotate the rear element and try again. Soon you will see which way is front and back focus. Usually 3 or four shots will get you "in". But test. Then try longer distances at the same aperture. take a new pic of the settings if you need to. Now try WO.

It sounds hard but actually you don't even have to get off the couch. LOL

As long as both your digi RF and film RF have good calibration (test with a single lens) the setting you learned on the digi will work on the film M 🙂

I haven´t seen anything "very, very sharp" so far. Looks like an ordinary super-fast SLR lens from about 1970.
It is totally different in every way to the 70's SLR superspeeds. Completely different formula, totally different glass, and a fraction of the size. Is it better? Well, my Canon FL 55/1.2 is a great lens and way better on the edges at all apertures. I never use the monster on my A7.mod, and it won't go on the M9 at all.

Your own eye, taste and handling preferences are the only meter, Billie. It's like food. 🙂

To me, the smell, taste and feel (meaning the color/render/oof etc) of this lens motivates attempting some creative photography. I don't claim success, but it makes me want to try 🙂 Others may just want to throw up 😉

Here it is at f/5.6 or f/8 infinity on the A7 Kolari:

DSC00485 by unoh7, on Flickr

On flickr you can see the full. Like my 1937 CZJ 5cm f/1.5, the thing is sharp as hell in the central frame. However the edges are terrible! Which is what the stock A7 does to many film lenses LOL, but in this case it's not the camera 🙂 This is why the sonnar design did not last except for nostalgia as a frontline photojournalist lens. No edges. The original Voigtlander 5cm 1.5 double gauss murdered it outside the central frame, as did the v1 50 Lux, also double gauss, which was in a whole different league technically. But just like A7 without a mod can make a nice picture with a 28 cron and a central subject, so the sonnar can do great if deployed properly, whether by accident or on purpose 🙂

Sharpness is a single factor of several, and it may be uneven. Other aspects may offset the poor edge sharpness. Look at the charts comparing the v4 50 cron to the mandler 50/1. The cron wipes the floor on edge resolution. Yet many would swap one for the Nocti in a heartbeat. And it's not only the speed.

One last note on the sample: had I been thinking I would have taken two more shots. One with focus on the edge (easy on a7) and one more in between. Then I would have chosen. This is one of the many ways the A7 is alot more of a pain than the M9 which has a hard infinity stop. If you just hit the focus in center, you are going to make some crappy landscapes with some lenses, which need to be carefully balanced between edge and center focus. This is the secret to making the new 35 ultron really sing on Sonys.
 
Having seen some results and the size of the lens, it could well become a classic.....must resist :bang:
Pete
 
i agree with most of the posts here. the ergonomics i can deal with it. once you get the aperture first then change focus its alright.
however this lens performs well to f2 for me. i have made lovely portraits with it up to f2. from there on, the CA/bokeh/glowy just kicks in in a distracting way that i dont really want to go down there. also another reason i dont like 50mm as much. altogether i sold it away. just want to share my experience. a very nice compact f2 lens it is otherwise. now i ended with a nice sonnar jupiter 8 and happily shooting it. costs me 5 quids!
 
Hey uhoh7, thanks for the wide open shots 🙂

This is why the sonnar design did not last except for nostalgia as a frontline photojournalist lens. No edges. The original Voigtlander 5cm 1.5 double gauss murdered it outside the central frame, as did the v1 50 Lux, also double gauss, which was in a whole different league technically.

I disagree with you. The Sonnar design lasted quite a while in form of the Nikkor 50/1.4. I've compared late LTM Nikkor 50/1.4 and v2 Summilux, and the Nikkor has some advantages: more resolution at medium fstops and close or medium focus, less distortion, and less flare. The v2 lux distorts heavily and is softer (and shifts more) at close focus, but is optimized for infinity resolution and reduced coma. Never used the v1 'lux.

One thing that never gets mentioned, and it's somehow visible in your Sonnetar shots, is the Sonnar design's flare resistance. This is one of the reasons, why the Sonnar design exists, as few glass surfaces for a 7 element design as possible. The other is compactness.

The reason why the Sonnar died out is the required longer registration distance of SLRs. The related Ernostar design continues living in the form of longer lenses.

Roland.
 
You might as well get an Amedeo adapter for your Contax 50/1.5. Isn't this less costly?

No, I had and used an amadeo adapter, and sold the lens and it when I got out of Leica. But now I'm back in.

Also, I can't resist a magical unicorn lens handmade by an eccentric genius.
 
Hey uhoh7, thanks for the wide open shots 🙂
I disagree with you. The Sonnar design lasted quite a while in form of the Nikkor 50/1.4. I've compared late LTM Nikkor 50/1.4 and v2 Summilux, and the Nikkor has some advantages: more resolution at medium fstops and close or medium focus, less distortion, and less flare. The v2 lux distorts heavily and is softer (and shifts more) at close focus, but is optimized for infinity resolution and reduced coma. Never used the v1 'lux.

One thing that never gets mentioned, and it's somehow visible in your Sonnetar shots, is the Sonnar design's flare resistance. This is one of the reasons, why the Sonnar design exists, as few glass surfaces for a 7 element design as possible. The other is compactness.

The reason why the Sonnar died out is the required longer registration distance of SLRs. The related Ernostar design continues living in the form of longer lenses.

Roland.

Hi Roland,

Isn't the Olympic a double Gauss? And the new one from 2000, I'm pretty sure is not a sonnar, but check me. I'll ask Brian.

I have the regular nikkor 5cm 1.4 and it is great for portraits, terrible for landscapes, worse than the CZJ by quite a margin. In any case the registration issue is an equal factor, maybe the greater one.

Here is a landscape on the M9 with better overall focus at infinity:

L1027484 by unoh7, f/8
Above is near identical to what I see from the CZJ sonnar in sharpness across the frame. At f/11 it might be better yet, but still these are pale edges compared to a v1 lux.

Flare:

L1027429 by unoh7, on Flickr

Also, I can't resist a magical unicorn lens handmade by an eccentric genius.
In a nutshell 🙂

My focus tab fell off somewhere so I use the lens in full expert mode. 😉

It is no biggy if you remember to check aperture often, lest you moved it while focusing. I might glue a bump on the ring. However my anger at this issue is mollified by perfect circles in OOF highlights at every aperture.


Kay by unoh7, on Flickr

more M9

L1027393 by unoh7, on Flickr

coma adjuster:


Sonnetar Coma Ring by unoh7, on Flickr
 
Yeah, I started off reading this thread not liking the lens. Now, I've done a complete 540.
Thanks a lot.

😉
 
Your own eye, taste and handling preferences are the only meter, Billie. It's like food. 🙂

I was referring to Dantes "very, very sharp". If we are talking aesthetically, the Sonnetar reminds me of the early Summilux 35 pre asph.
 
Ordered one. I'm quite excited. I was in the market for a fast 50 and was considering re-buying the Nokton. But I couldn't resist the compactness and obscurity of this lens.

Dante, are you going to do a write-up on your site?
 
Ordered one. I'm quite excited. I was in the market for a fast 50 and was considering re-buying the Nokton. But I couldn't resist the compactness and obscurity of this lens.

Dante, are you going to do a write-up on your site?

I will. I am in the last stages of figuring out how the calibration varies between a camera that will show CA (like an M240) and one that does no (like an M246).

I am probably going to scrub the Seven Sonnar comparo though. Way too many variables have surfaced (helicoids for Contax lenses, LTM adapter thicknesses, apparent variation between an M240 and 246, etc.). The observable performance of the 1950s Zeiss/Canon/Nikon, late 1970s GOMZ, and 1990s ZM may not vary enough to merit a week to shooting boring test pictures.

Dante
 
I will. I am in the last stages of figuring out how the calibration varies between a camera that will show CA (like an M240) and one that does no (like an M246).

I am probably going to scrub the Seven Sonnar comparo though. Way too many variables have surfaced (helicoids for Contax lenses, LTM adapter thicknesses, apparent variation between an M240 and 246, etc.). The observable performance of the 1950s Zeiss/Canon/Nikon, late 1970s GOMZ, and 1990s ZM may not vary enough to merit a week to shooting boring test pictures.

Dante

I would be curious, though, to see a comparison between the Sonnetar and Canon 50/1.2, which I used to have and liked fairly well.

Looking forward to it!
 
Hi Roland,

Isn't the Olympic a double Gauss? And the new one from 2000, I'm pretty sure is not a sonnar, but check me.

Correct, uhoh7, regarding the Olympic (and its modern copy from 2000).

That's some impressive spirale ghost in your second photo !

Roland.
 
I would be curious, though, to see a comparison between the Sonnetar and Canon 50/1.2, which I used to have and liked fairly well.

Looking forward to it!

I have a Canon 50/1.2 that I was going to send back. I did shoot some tests with it outdoors at night on Thursday and can put some of those shots up.

In essence, it seems designed for a flatter field and a little less sharpness (or focusing accuracy, really hard to say) in the center. Far less vignetting. The flare performance is what I am having a really hard time gauging (except that the old Canon chrome rim filters flare a lot in sidelight - ha!). With no filter (obviously), I am trying to figure out whether the ghosting is normal around very bright light sources at wide apertures. This is not CA-style ghosting but rather white light bleed.

On the 50/1.2 I have here, infinity focus doesn't look quite right (at the physical stop, it goes past both in the RF and image), but I'll try another adapter or three to be sure (I have a Leica, a no-name 6-bit, and an Amedeo). The nice thing about 50mm lenses is that with a 1:1 lens to helicoid position, the thickness of the adapter generally only determines whether the lens makes it to infinity optically or doesn't - it doesn't throw off the focus at intermediate range.

Dante
 
@ Roland

TY for check 🙂

Yes it appears Nikon went to double gauss with the 5cm/1.4 Olympic, both versions. Since these are RF lenses, registration was not an issue.

Why do you feel they made this change?

Re the spiral flare, yeah I don't get that often. I'm glad you mentioned the flare resistance of the Sonnar, as I will play with that now. What I enjoy about this lens is it's rarely boring. It often surprises, and sometimes delights 🙂 The keeper rate is lower, but not lower than UWA with all the unpredictable distortion issues.

It would be gutsy to have this lens as your only 50, but if you shoot alot of 35 and have one of those you really like, I could see it.

The form factor is a huge plus. This is the only pocket superspeed. It's nothing to have it with you. The Sonys seem to tolerate it, and modded sony is better yet.
 
Getting pretty close to having this totally set for the M246. I think you can click on the picture to make it bigger. I think this is at f/1.1.

Dante

20151006_001207.jpg
 
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