squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
Hey Dante, one more thing, did you buy a Kaiser cap for this lens? Which size works? I am not going to get along with this screw-on dealie.
50/1.1 MS-Sonnetar: the next cult lens?
- Thread starter Dante_Stella
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Decentering is one thing, and MS Optical lenses are certainly know for their individuality lol, but I was mainly thinking of problems like the mount not bringing up the correct frame line, parts spontaneously detaching from the lens, and gunk (I've heard some interesting stories 😉) such as fingerprints, hairs, and fibers inside the optics and barrel.
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
It's artisanal, bro
IdealCamera
Established
It's poor workmanship and design, that's what it is. You can call it artisanal, cult, local, organic, or whatever makes one feel better, but that won't change reality. That said, we live in a free market, so anyone is free to spend their $1,100 as they please. Perhaps it is the next cult lens: enough good folk are willing to suspend common sense and believe in it, almost makes it real.
uhoh7
Veteran
The reality is it's a 200 gram f/1.1 Sonnar. The only one ever made by anyone. It has superb fluorite glass.
How many lenses have you designed and built?
pyeh
Member of good standing
Artisanal indeed! I have every one of Miyazaki-san's recent lenses (6) and they all have ergonomic idiosyncrasies and build-quality question marks that you just wouldn't accept from anyone else - principally the choose-aperture-before-you-focus regimen and the too-finely-threaded-hard-to-get-off screw-on lens caps and hoods. Not to mention the freaky exposed diaphragm blades on the 24/4. Also, on my 24/4 the lens cap thread is already stripped and I can't get it off the lens.
Optically they are very unorthodox, in this age of industrialised computer calculated perfection, almost toy lenses in the way Lomo markets their cameras, sort of like these are one man's physical esquisses on what a special lens should be.
I love these lenses though and what Miyazaki-san does out of his metaphorical shed, and I plan to continue to support him by buying his offerings. Is the new 35/1.4 lens on the market yet? I couldn't see anything on japanexposures.
Thank you Dante Stella and Uhoh7 for the tips on coma adjustment on the Sonnetar, but I still don't understand how coma and focus shift are related. I probably need to read a book on optics. Perhaps you both could just tell us your optimum setting(s) for that adjustment ring?
Optically they are very unorthodox, in this age of industrialised computer calculated perfection, almost toy lenses in the way Lomo markets their cameras, sort of like these are one man's physical esquisses on what a special lens should be.
I love these lenses though and what Miyazaki-san does out of his metaphorical shed, and I plan to continue to support him by buying his offerings. Is the new 35/1.4 lens on the market yet? I couldn't see anything on japanexposures.
Thank you Dante Stella and Uhoh7 for the tips on coma adjustment on the Sonnetar, but I still don't understand how coma and focus shift are related. I probably need to read a book on optics. Perhaps you both could just tell us your optimum setting(s) for that adjustment ring?
f16sunshine
Moderator
I enjoy all your images and conversation guys but,... little fiddly lenses have found their way into my kit in the past just to languish. It's really not worth the hassle compared to other offerings. Even at the relatively low price. There is nothing to see in anyones images that would indicate otherwise.
It's a very cool concept and fun thing for geeking out on optics.
The best designs get out of the way. Maybe I'm wrong ....
It's a very cool concept and fun thing for geeking out on optics.
The best designs get out of the way. Maybe I'm wrong ....
uhoh7
Veteran
This is a good question. As to the setting, I am just ahead of the red dot. But when I shoot it on the M9 I check and reset. It shoots really well on the A7.mod also, and I should play with the adjuster. Maybe Dante will explain more to us.
I feel the same as you regarding the fiddly build. For those who see nothing special and don't care about the form factor of their nighttime 50, the lens is not for you. I certainly would not recommend it as your only 50 LOL
I know I love it, and not because I want my moneys worth. I paid alot of money for sony cameras too and anyone here knows I don't hesitate to rant about them. I love the sonnar style, I like this lens' unique colors, I LOVE how tiny it is. I have made lots of shots that I really like with it, others might say meh or ugh. That's fine I'm not trying to impress anyone, just show the lens and what I like about it. I have had many comments from much better photographers than me about how they also liked the look of it. Others like the bartender see nothing they like much. Nothing wrong in that.
It's a personal thing like taste in food.
The build is quirky, but I just had mine apart, and I would not call it cheap. It's very light. Easy to unscrew the front group for cleaning, and you see the superb german aperture, always a perfect circle. The hood is a puzzle as I think it vignettes without a filter installed a unusual way and it likes to stick on there LOL. I just leave it home. Seems to handle flare pretty well. The rear mount is too light, as noted above. The coma adjuster is very good to have because you can calibrate it so easy.
The helicoid is well greased and it picks up dust if you are using it alot. So you clean it.
In use you must pay attention. If you hate learning and adapting you will hate this thing. But its very easy to use as long as you remind yourself that you may have focused with the aperture ring LOL It's like the opposite of a 5cm LTM Elmar, where you can't get to the aperture. But if you just pay attention a bit it's no problem. It would be better with another design in this respect. Whatever. Very small price to pay, in my mind to have such a tiny sonnar superspeed. I leave my CV 50/1.1 at home, and have yet to regret it.
If I did like the lens I would not be using it often. It would join the many other bystanders on my lens shelf that I hardly use, and many are really good. I use it often. Because I like it. Shoot me. 🙂
pyeh
Member of good standing
Thanks Uhoh#7. I guess I'd better set the lens up on a tripod and fiddle withe coma adjuster myself, as you sensibly suggested earlier on. I tend to use it on an M9 as well.
I like what you say and the way you say it.
BTW my Sonnetar sample didn't have any mounting/frameline issues. I don't think it's even got that tab bit in the mount that needs to be set properly.
I like what you say and the way you say it.
BTW my Sonnetar sample didn't have any mounting/frameline issues. I don't think it's even got that tab bit in the mount that needs to be set properly.
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
I was joking of course. The lens is quirky but an amazing feat of engineering. It's a 1.1 Sonnar! That's an extraordinary thing. It's already been fun to learn to use. I hope to get on with it well but if not, it should hold its value. What's the point of the snark?
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
Yes, dirk told me they're not all necessarily like that...
N
Ned Bojic
Guest
A magic bullet that can turn the mundane everyday photographer into a great Arteest on lsd.
IdealCamera
Established
Seriously. Even otherwise very worthwhile, rational people say silly things at times. I didn't realize that only chefs can be food critics and only car manufacturers can comment on whether a car uses clean diesel or not.
Pioneer
Veteran
Sorry...but nope!
It is not a toy. It is not even close to a Lomo type experience.
It is actually a very, very good lens, just not a lens everyone should own. Some people do not feel comfortable working without click stops. Others are troubled by the need to fit your work style to the lens. It is not really a lens for someone who enjoys jumping from lens to lens, and there is nothing wrong with using different lenses. It just takes time to learn this lens so you need to leave it on your camera and work with it by itself, as if it were your only lens.
Once you learn to work with (not against) its unique ergonomic requirements then you begin to appreciate what it can do for your work. Only then can you intelligently make any decisions about whether this is a lens for you or not. But, like others have also said, this is not a lens for every photographer so there is absolutely no shame in not liking it. But neither is there cause to disparage it.
Dante_Stella
Rex canum cattorumque
Funny you should ask. I did. The 52mm squeeze type. There was a guy on Ebay who had them for like $7.
Dante
Dante_Stella
Rex canum cattorumque
Which is the indulgence you entertained in buying the ZM C-Sonnar, which is expressly designed (Zeiss says as much) to be flawed compared to modern lenses. In fact, the bokeh is engineered to be better than the original Opton Sonnar, and this exerts a toll in terms of increased focus shift and degraded performance. The perverse design of this lens causes such issues that there have been different revisions to collimation over time to account for the focus shift.
I actually enjoy using the ZM, but it is a canard to suggest that if you used it like a Planar, without making conscious and deliberate focus compensations depending on your aperture and subject distance, it would produce what would be acceptable results by today's standards. I know this because I have a C-Sonnar and have used it for years.
The only significant operational differences between the ZM and a Sonnetar are minor issues of ergonomics (the ZM being more like conventional lenses in not having a rotating front) and the fact that the Sonnetar gives you some control to adjust the lens to your own taste. I don't think that the lens focuses past infinity (optically and via RF) is of any particular moment; that's an annoyance but one that I have seen on many lenses that fit Leicas, particularly LTM ones.
Dante
Dante_Stella
Rex canum cattorumque
It has a very fast twist to the focusing helicoid. You are more likely to get close to the correct focus when things move quickly, at the expense of some theoretical focusing accuracy. The alternative would be something with a slow helicoid where you might miss the moment while trying to turn the ring fast enough.
D
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
It is vexing, though, that the aperture ring turns even more freely than the helicoid. But I'm learning not to bump it!
Thanks for the cap recommendation!
Chris Bail
Regular Guy
Alternatively, you can use a 62mm pinch cap on the hood. That's been my preferred method of keeping the lens capped. I had a spare Minolta branded cap laying around that I got for free.
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
I mostly was hoping to use a push cap, like the Kaiser ones Dante has written about. I always prefer those. I'm gonna try a 55, as I have a 56 that is just slightly too big. A 54 is the natural thing to order, but the lip of the lens is very narrow and it will have to fit over the knurling on the focusing ring.
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