matt fury
Well-known
Hi, my name is Matt and I'm new around here. I just picked up a Leica M4, but I'm currently lens-less. My SLR rig is a Contax 139Q with a 50/1.4 Planar, and I've become very accustomed to the low-light versatility that the Planar offers. I often shoot indoors and into the evening, so I think a fast lens is definitely necessary. Of course, the easy choice would be to just pick up a Summilux and go to town, but at best I'm looking at $750. I've read some pretty good reviews of the 50mm Nokton, and the price is certainly right, but I'm wondering how well it stands up to the 'lux. I know that the Leica and the Voigtlander are really in a different ballpark, but for a ~$400 savings, I can afford to loose a little quality for now. If it comes down to it and it's really worth it, I could probably find the dough for the Summilux. Also, I know it's a personal thing, but how is the bokeh on the 50 Nok? I know it's not so hot (generally speaking) on the 40.
Aw, hell, I'm rambling now. So what do you guys think?
Aw, hell, I'm rambling now. So what do you guys think?
J. Borger
Well-known
If you talk about the summilux pre-asph some will claim the nokton is better.
I never got the point because the 50 summilux pre-asph is one of my favourite lenses. Some claim the the 50 Summilux is soft wide open and lacks contrast .... well i can 't agree.
It is also the Leica lens with the best deals out there if you take your time.
I have seen new ones go for around $1000.
The attached sample gives an impression of performance wide open in terms of sharpness and bokeh
I never got the point because the 50 summilux pre-asph is one of my favourite lenses. Some claim the the 50 Summilux is soft wide open and lacks contrast .... well i can 't agree.
It is also the Leica lens with the best deals out there if you take your time.
I have seen new ones go for around $1000.
The attached sample gives an impression of performance wide open in terms of sharpness and bokeh
Rico
Well-known
matt,
I have the M4, 139Q, and a P50/1.4 or two. Contax RTS is my main system. While the Planar is my most-used lens, I regard the bokeh as fairly poor. Two points of different between RF and SLR usage: first, you don't need a fast lens for focus and framing in low light with an RF; second, you enjoy a lower shutter speed with an RF. Therefore, a slower and cheaper lens can be selected for your M4.
Enjoy the new toy!
I have the M4, 139Q, and a P50/1.4 or two. Contax RTS is my main system. While the Planar is my most-used lens, I regard the bokeh as fairly poor. Two points of different between RF and SLR usage: first, you don't need a fast lens for focus and framing in low light with an RF; second, you enjoy a lower shutter speed with an RF. Therefore, a slower and cheaper lens can be selected for your M4.
Enjoy the new toy!
BrianPhotog
Well-known
Bokeh on the CV isn't that bad, just avoid strong highlights wide open and that's about it. I love mine and, for the price of a good Summilux, I was able to grab a 35 and 75, too 
breadboy
Newbie
Matt.
First of all, ask yourself why you got a Leica camera. If the answer is because you like Leica glass then the 50 summilux is the lens for you. I recently considered trading 'up' to the vastly superior (in the performance charts) ASPH version but decided I couldn't part with the special qualities of the summilux. If you like low light, this is the lens, especially for colour. It has a fantastic oof fingerprint and a dreamy, some would call 'soft' tone wide open. It isn't soft, edges of objects are very sharp, it just has ...I dunno, a quality. You will find that the Leica cult attracts many sharpness junkies because of Leica's ability to produce super sharp glass but really, sharpness isn't the only thing to be considered.
First of all, ask yourself why you got a Leica camera. If the answer is because you like Leica glass then the 50 summilux is the lens for you. I recently considered trading 'up' to the vastly superior (in the performance charts) ASPH version but decided I couldn't part with the special qualities of the summilux. If you like low light, this is the lens, especially for colour. It has a fantastic oof fingerprint and a dreamy, some would call 'soft' tone wide open. It isn't soft, edges of objects are very sharp, it just has ...I dunno, a quality. You will find that the Leica cult attracts many sharpness junkies because of Leica's ability to produce super sharp glass but really, sharpness isn't the only thing to be considered.
Let me confuse the matter and throw out another option. The Nokton is very similar in design to the Canon 50/1.4 of the late 1950 through 1960. It is priced similarly to a new Nokton and offers excellent performance wide open too.
Next guy to post will talk about the 1.4 Nikkor......
Point is that there are a few good options out there.
Next guy to post will talk about the 1.4 Nikkor......
Point is that there are a few good options out there.
Andrew3511
Established
Or you could go for the (much) cheaper Leica f1.5 Summarit. I picked one up a couple of months ago and have been very pleased with it. The crucial thing is to check it carefully for haze/fog which is the major contributor to this lens's reputation for poor contrast and flare. The front element is soft and can be scratched and getting filters and hoods in the 41mm thread is almost impossible. The Leica matched Summarit hood (XOONS) is rare and often costs as much as the lens as well as being bulky.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
J. Borger said:
AH- but to really like the Summilux you'll have to take photo's like that!
Great!
FPjohn
Well-known
A stop down...
A stop down...
Hello:
If you accept a stop less, a recent used Summicron will reward you.
yours
Frank
A stop down...
Hello:
If you accept a stop less, a recent used Summicron will reward you.
yours
Frank
Huck Finn
Well-known
Matt, welcome aboard!
FYI - The Nokton has a minimum focus distance of 0.9 meter (about 3 feet). The Summilux ASPH & later versions of the pre-ASPH focus down to 0.7 m (27.5 inches). Depending on your shooting style, this may or may not be an issue for you. Also, the Nokton was measured by Popular Photography as having a mzximum aperture of f/1.6, so the difference between it & the Summilux is actually a little greater than it first appears. Again, this may or may not be significant for your use.
Huck
FYI - The Nokton has a minimum focus distance of 0.9 meter (about 3 feet). The Summilux ASPH & later versions of the pre-ASPH focus down to 0.7 m (27.5 inches). Depending on your shooting style, this may or may not be an issue for you. Also, the Nokton was measured by Popular Photography as having a mzximum aperture of f/1.6, so the difference between it & the Summilux is actually a little greater than it first appears. Again, this may or may not be significant for your use.
Huck
peter_n
Veteran
Welcome to the forum Matt!! I have a couple of rolls shot with my Summilux pre-ASPH but they are in a stack of undeveloped film... I am praying that even one frame is remotely as good as J. Borger's perfect example - and great shot! The lens is quite a beaut!
I have a couple of rolls shot with my Summilux pre-ASPH but they are in a stack of undeveloped film... I am praying that even one frame is remotely as good as J. Borger's perfect example - and great shot! The lens is quite a beaut!
tajart
ancien
i've had 2 different 50/1.4 Summilux lenses. Both beautiful I sold one to a friend thinking the Summicron 50 would suffice- it does...but then when I was at one of Seattle's pro shops, sitting there gleaming was my 2nd 50/1.4- I had to have it. Bought it and was thrilled. A few weeks later I was visiting friends in Vancouver and was proudly showing off the latest- the response was, nice lens for a 40 year old design, followed by, the Nokton is a better design. As it turned out, that particular lens wouldn't stay locked on my M6; it was returned and was the downpayment on my M7. Last year I picked up the Nokton and find it to be a wonderfully satisfying lens to use. It is big but fits my hand quite nice. I continue to enjoy the 50 Summicron as well and haven't missed the 50 Summilux.
xabi
Established
Tajart,
Can you tell me more why you sell the lens the second time? Apart from your friend's comment, is there any other reason?
Can you tell me more why you sell the lens the second time? Apart from your friend's comment, is there any other reason?
tajart
ancien
'lux/'ton
'lux/'ton
it wasn't the exact lens, but it was the second one i had purchased. the main reason i sold it was because it would not lock into place on my particular camera body, M6. All my other lenses lock in place and have never been a problem. The store thought I should send my camera in with the lens, but since it was never, and still isn't, a problem with other lenses, I chose to return the lens. This became the downpayment on the M7.
Since the Summilux did not lock in place, one time when shooting, it came off of the camera- luckily I was focussing and it came off in my hand. That was a scary moment.
'lux/'ton
it wasn't the exact lens, but it was the second one i had purchased. the main reason i sold it was because it would not lock into place on my particular camera body, M6. All my other lenses lock in place and have never been a problem. The store thought I should send my camera in with the lens, but since it was never, and still isn't, a problem with other lenses, I chose to return the lens. This became the downpayment on the M7.
Since the Summilux did not lock in place, one time when shooting, it came off of the camera- luckily I was focussing and it came off in my hand. That was a scary moment.
matt fury
Well-known
Wow guys, first off, thanks for all the great suggestions and info. As rover said, there are a few good options out there. As far as the other options go, I've considered the Canon, and I'm just not in love with that dreamy soft'ness, at least not for what I will likely be shooting. The Summarit is a bit better, but I still don't think it fits my useage as well as the other choices.
From the pictures I've seen (Awesome shot, J Borger, seriously), I think that I like the Summilux better, but at this stage in my game I don't think it's better enough for me to warrant the expenditure. I'm still not in love with the way the Nokton handles strong points of light (is that how you describe it?), but it could've just been the pictures I've seen. Plus, who knows, it might not ever end up being a problem for me.
BUT! FPJohn brings up a good point, also. If I can make it with one less stop (I'm not sure I can), I can find a nice Summicron for around the same price as the Nokton. That is definitely a tempting solution, so I'm going to play with my spot meter for a bit and try to guess how much I'll need that extra stop. That basically leaves it to the cheaper stuff..either the 'Cron if I can get away with it or the Nokton. Another good thing about that option is that I can see what my useage is like with the M4 and hopefully make a much more educated decision for my next lens.
edit: I almost forgot.. THIS
also helped me compare the lenses. Does anyone know of any problems with their tests?
From the pictures I've seen (Awesome shot, J Borger, seriously), I think that I like the Summilux better, but at this stage in my game I don't think it's better enough for me to warrant the expenditure. I'm still not in love with the way the Nokton handles strong points of light (is that how you describe it?), but it could've just been the pictures I've seen. Plus, who knows, it might not ever end up being a problem for me.
BUT! FPJohn brings up a good point, also. If I can make it with one less stop (I'm not sure I can), I can find a nice Summicron for around the same price as the Nokton. That is definitely a tempting solution, so I'm going to play with my spot meter for a bit and try to guess how much I'll need that extra stop. That basically leaves it to the cheaper stuff..either the 'Cron if I can get away with it or the Nokton. Another good thing about that option is that I can see what my useage is like with the M4 and hopefully make a much more educated decision for my next lens.
edit: I almost forgot.. THIS
also helped me compare the lenses. Does anyone know of any problems with their tests?
Last edited:
broadie
holding steady
Matt: Keep us updated on your thoughts using your new rangefinder system, in comparison to the contax slr...I have the same 139Q set-up, and I really like it and find it quite-rangefinder like at least physically (small, quiet).
J. borger: Great shot as well. Dont you think it would make a good ad for that raising the bar wireless ad campaign?
J. borger: Great shot as well. Dont you think it would make a good ad for that raising the bar wireless ad campaign?
matt fury
Well-known
Broadie, not a problem. I bought everything especially for a trip I'm taking next weekend and then another the weekend after. Can't promise any decent shots, but I'll definitely come back and share my thoughts on the camera. This isn't my first rangefinder, as I also have a Retina IIa, but it's definitely my first foray into any RF that could in any way be considered "modern."
dgray
Established
One of the nice things about buying a used Leica lens is the ability to sell it again for the same amount of money, since it has already depreciated. If you are at all thinking about the summicron, you could try it out and sell it if you find you really do need more speed. By all accounts its performance is phenomenal (I've never owned one, though, so that is second hand, but I can say the summilux is a special lens). You could also likely find someone who would be willing to trade you on this forum for a different lens. If you haven't noticed yet, lots of people try lots of equipment on this site. The choice you make now doesn't mean you are married to it forever.
matt fury
Well-known
DGray, you hit the nail right on the head. It's not gonna be my last lens, and it's highly unlikely I'm going to get stuck with it if I don't like it. I'm gonna hit up all the retailers tonight and hopefully pull the trigger...
dgray
Established
Good luck - I hope you find a great deal on a lens you love! Keep us updated by reporting back on your findings.