50mm ideas?

[jcrutcher]

Another vote for the Elmar-M 2.8, super sharp and small. The black versions are lighter too.

I would also agree with the ZM-Sonnar 50/1.5. compact depth wise sharp stopped down, a little soft wide open which I like with B&W.

The CV Skoper 50 2.5 is very small and super sharp

 

[ferider]

Funny how many of the suggestions above list personal favorites but not what you are asking for.

There are not many 50mm lenses f2 or faster that focus below one meter. Fitting your requirements, of the top of my head, are only 50/2 Planar, 50/2 Summicron (DR, or v3 or newer), 50/2 M-Hex. Or the 50/2 and 50/1.4 Nikkors LTM with a simple DIY modification. Most Summicrons today run more than your budget, the other lenses are within (the Nikkor 50/2 in particular).

My personal favorite of my list is the Nikkor 50/1.4.

Roland.

 

[ottluuk]

Thank you for your opinions, some food for thought here.

The more I think about it, three options seem to stand out: the 1.4 Nikkor for its speed, the DR Summicron for the "Leica" look and close focus ability and the Collapsible Summicron for being much of what the DR is in a compact package.

The Canon and Nikkor LTM lenses are pretty scarce here on the EU side, it seems. But with a bit of luck, a decent Collapsible Summicron could be had for about €500, is that about right?

I would be hesitant to move towards contrasty modern multicoated lenses. Putting together a full 35-50-90 set of lenses with matching modern imaging characteristics sounds expensive compared to doing the same in the vintage department. Plus, I like the stuff I'm getting with my current oldies.

 

[ferider]

A couple of notes:

- the DR and collapsible are quite different lenses. The DR is the first computer optimized Leica (Mandler) lens.
- it's very difficult to find a clean copy of either. Scratched coatings and haze are very prominent in used copies.
- "low contrast" lenses are overrated, IMHO. Exposure impact on contrast is much higher than lens choice.

That being said, don't disregard the Nikkor 50/2. Hard coatings, as a Sonnar flare resistant and sharp in the center with very little distortion, and basically indistinguishable from a clean classic Summicron in its output (I've compared them side by side).

Roland.

 

[laskadog]

A summarit f1.5 is cheap and is very retro looking at f1.5 and sharp as of 2.8.

 

[venchka]

The Nikkor 50/1.4 infinity lock probably functions as a focus tab. I rarely if ever use the lock for that purpose. As I recall, the Canon 50/1.8 had a similar lock.
I must be lucky. My copy of the D.R. Summicron and goggles arrived in pristine condition. I did pay a bit more for the condition and the original case. Well worth the price. IMHO.
I am very fortunate to own two the most often mentioned classic 50mm lenses.

Wayne

 

[ottluuk]

A couple of notes:

...

- "low contrast" lenses are overrated, IMHO. Exposure impact on contrast is much higher than lens choice.

...
Roland.

You're probably right, but at least it sounds like a good excuse for using cheapish antiques instead of budgeting for the cutting edge stuff 😀. Also, the low contrast thing seems to be used as a proxy for a bunch of other characteristics mostly found in older lenses - smoother transitions from in focus to out of focus areas, sharpness falloff in the image field, a touch of veiling flare or undercorrected spherical aberration....

And yeah, I'll keep the f/2 Nikkor in mind as well. Some of them seem to focus much closer (1,5ft?) than the rangefinder coupling would allow - would it be difficult to put a stop (or better yet, a click stop) to the 0,7m distance so that it's clear when the RF mechanism stops working?

 

[venchka]

Here you go. does this qualify?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-Summicron-M-50mm-F2-Lens-M2-M3-Camera-CLAd-Free-US-Shipping-/221110265368?_trksid=p4340.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D11%26meid%3D1556213232713656486%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D5%26#ht_945wt_1397

The Nikkor 50/1.4 has a noticeable "bump" in the focus travel when the rangefinder coupling stops and the lens continues to focus to 18". Of course you are in guessing land as far as actual point of focus and framing are concerned.

Wayne

 

[ottluuk]

Here you go. does this qualify?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-Summicron-M-50mm-F2-Lens-M2-M3-Camera-CLAd-Free-US-Shipping-/221110265368?_trksid=p4340.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D11%26meid%3D1556213232713656486%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D5%26#ht_945wt_1397

---

Wayne

Actually, that one seems to have a bit scratchy front element, the reflections don't look quite right to me. I think I saw a better one (or a better photograph of one, at least) for less, somewhere, and in the EU, which is a plus. Anyhow, it's mostly window shopping at this point, still waiting for the money train to roll in (the curse of working project-based in a small NGO - irregular payments are the norm :bang🙂

The "bump" in the Nikkor's focus travel is good to know. I wasn't aware of that.

 

[kermaier]

You're probably right, but at least it sounds like a good excuse for using cheapish antiques instead of budgeting for the cutting edge stuff 😀. Also, the low contrast thing seems to be used as a proxy for a bunch of other characteristics mostly found in older lenses - smoother transitions from in focus to out of focus areas, sharpness falloff in the image field, a touch of veiling flare or undercorrected spherical aberration....

And yeah, I'll keep the f/2 Nikkor in mind as well. Some of them seem to focus much closer (1,5ft?) than the rangefinder coupling would allow - would it be difficult to put a stop (or better yet, a click stop) to the 0,7m distance so that it's clear when the RF mechanism stops working?

All of the LTM Nikkor 50s that have close focus (Nikkor-S.C f/1.4, Nikkor-H.C f/2, Nikkor-Q.C f/3.5) have a "bump" in the focus as you pass the 1 meter mark, approximately (which is where RF coupling in those days would have ended).

If you want 0.7m MFD in a 50mm lens, you don't really have many options with true vintage glass. As others have noted, you need to go to something like a modern Summicron 50/2, M-Hexanon 50/2, ZM Planar 50/2 or Elmar-M 50/2.8 (all quite contrasty).

The CV Skopar 50/2.5 is not quite as contrasty as these others, is extremely compact (same size/shape as a 35/2 Summicron v1), and is an LTM lens with 0.75m MFD, focus tab and short focus throw.

::Ari

 

[ottluuk]

All of the LTM Nikkor 50s that have close focus (Nikkor-S.C f/1.4, Nikkor-H.C f/2, Nikkor-Q.C f/3.5) have a "bump" in the focus as you pass the 1 meter mark, approximately (which is where RF coupling in those days would have ended).

::Ari

But does the cam actually stop at the 1m bump or does rangefinder coupling work down to 0,7m? Or will something block the camera's roller arm past 1m? Is this where the DIY modifications come in? (I'm sorry if these are stupid questions but I haven't had the luck of handling any of these fine lenses)

 

[ferider]

Here is how you modify either Nikkor 50/2 or 50/1.4 to 0.7m MFD:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56962

Roland.

 

[ottluuk]

Here is how you modify either Nikkor 50/2 or 50/1.4 to 0.7m MFD:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56962

Roland.

Excellent! Bookmarked for future reference.

 

[CrisR]

I was after similar as a 2nd 50mm along side my excellent, but bulky, VC 50/1.1

I looked at the Summarit 50/1.5, VC 50/1.5 and the Zeiss 50/1.5, but for overall sharpness and to gain a more distinctive look compared to my Nokton, i went with the Zeiss Planar 50/2.

Of your list, i think the only thing that's off is the contrast being high, but you can sort that in post? The price was spot on your budget. Ok, it's no collapsable, but is 10mm really a deal breaker?

1) 50mm f/2 or faster (f/2.8 will do if it's usable wide open) - Yup
2) shorter than the regular double gauss types, collapsible? - It's not large!
3) medium contrast but decent sharpness, a 1960's look if you will (B&W only). - Post?
4) full stop aperture clicks, equally spaced if possible - Yup
5) well built, as in vintage Japanese or better - Yup
6) focusses down to 0.7m - Yup
7) focus tab, normal focus throw and usable DOF scale - Yup
8) sub- €700, preferably less - Yup