Carterofmars
Well-known
Not exactly sure what the connection is. I think it was an attempt at sarcasm, but I thought I'd play along anyway.
GSNfan
Well-known
People don't appreciate what they don't understand. You show pictures taken by Winogrand to a lot of people and they shrug it off, you show pictures of HCB to anyone and they immediately see something especial in it.
Why is that?
First time I saw HCB's puddle jumper, it was long before I took up photography, but i intuitively knew that was a special picture. Then I saw his other picture with the stairs and bicycle going by and I got it without having the least visual training in photography.
HCB and Winogrand are both street photographers and equally well regarded but why this disparity in the 'popularity' of their images?
When you watch the interview with both men, HCB seems to go to great lengths in order to understate his achievements and he almost never talks about photography as an art. Winogrand on the other hand goes through all the intellectual gymnastics of trying to make sense of photos. And yet his standing on a street corner shooting non-stop at passing women and he never processes or develops most of what he shot. It is clear that he had lost interest in pictures - i guess because most of what he shot was garbage. Yet, because he could not do anything else with his life and he was a photographer by default he had to go on and on and on... Justifying his work by intellectual one-liners that sound pretty catchy but are mostly meaningless.
HCB on the other hand inspired almost every major photographer of the recent past, established a decent agency with other photographers and created a visual structure of taking photos that still works.
So, what I'm getting at is that every 'street photographer' has the option to shoot in the lazy style of winogrand and not care what the images look, and justify them by intellectual mumbo-jumbo or shoot like HCB and make every picture count, resulting in wider appreciate by non-forumite normal public.
Imo show people something visually interesting and they'll like it, that is the conclusion of my ramblings.
Why is that?
First time I saw HCB's puddle jumper, it was long before I took up photography, but i intuitively knew that was a special picture. Then I saw his other picture with the stairs and bicycle going by and I got it without having the least visual training in photography.
HCB and Winogrand are both street photographers and equally well regarded but why this disparity in the 'popularity' of their images?
When you watch the interview with both men, HCB seems to go to great lengths in order to understate his achievements and he almost never talks about photography as an art. Winogrand on the other hand goes through all the intellectual gymnastics of trying to make sense of photos. And yet his standing on a street corner shooting non-stop at passing women and he never processes or develops most of what he shot. It is clear that he had lost interest in pictures - i guess because most of what he shot was garbage. Yet, because he could not do anything else with his life and he was a photographer by default he had to go on and on and on... Justifying his work by intellectual one-liners that sound pretty catchy but are mostly meaningless.
HCB on the other hand inspired almost every major photographer of the recent past, established a decent agency with other photographers and created a visual structure of taking photos that still works.
So, what I'm getting at is that every 'street photographer' has the option to shoot in the lazy style of winogrand and not care what the images look, and justify them by intellectual mumbo-jumbo or shoot like HCB and make every picture count, resulting in wider appreciate by non-forumite normal public.
Imo show people something visually interesting and they'll like it, that is the conclusion of my ramblings.
robklurfield
eclipse
heisenberg's uncertainty principle applied to street shooting: the interaction or even mere presence of the shooter and the subjects in the same place has impact on everything. the shooter and the viewer of the finished product also carry along their own unique baggage. depending on what they've got packed into that metaphoric luggage (are they carrying samsonite or louis vuitton?) they're each going to apply their own interpretations. the rule of the principle is that there's no predicting where any of those spinning particles are going to be at any one moment, but we can be sure that just watching them spin around influences where they are at any instant.
Carterofmars
Well-known
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40oz
...
Right. Because you posted links to "most of what he shot."
Winogrand was a hack. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while. You don't have to agree, but posting links to a few of your favorites is hardly a rebuttal. Hell, the man didn't even develop his film in his own lifetime. For all we know he took 10,000 shots with the lens cap on before he died. And for all he knew as well.
And it's all personal taste anyway. Who are you to argue with someone's opinion? If you like Winogrand's work, why would you care if someone else liked some other photographer far more?
My beef with Winogrand's "style" is his complete disregard for craft or vision. He merely pulled the trigger as many times as he could. What a colladdal waste of film and paper and money. If the man spent a few minutes looking over the previous day's shots he would progress. Instead it's like he gave up trying and simply sprayed and prayed. Enough people were impressed by a guy who did nothing but shoot film all day long - no developing, no printing, no progresing as an artist, simply burning through film for the sake of it - that nobody could blame him for playing along and believing his own BS.
I just won't agree that "street photography" is defined by taking rapid-fire pictures of people on a New York City street corner with little regard for the subject.
gshybrid
Well-known
aren't you arguing with someone's opinion?
Damaso
Photojournalist
I don't think street photography was ever as highly regarded as some people think it was. Just look at the reaction people had to Robert Frank's work when it was published in this country.
I think someone can appreciate a bustling street and capture it just as well if they've never been in a big city. I certainly think our different backgrounds are going to give us different perspectives.
I think someone can appreciate a bustling street and capture it just as well if they've never been in a big city. I certainly think our different backgrounds are going to give us different perspectives.
Sparrow
Veteran
... why try and do anything? why not just take some snapshots and see if you get any good ones? that's what I do
alistair.o
Well-known
Trust a Yorkshireman to put it out straight and true
(I've got a houseful from N. Yorkshire this weekend - not a 'bent-bat' between them!)Al
Sparrow
Veteran
... well all this conceptualising gets on one's tits
Carterofmars
Well-known
I hardly think I was arguing 40oz. Lighten up a little. We're all grown ups here just conversing a little about street photography. No one needs another popping in and deciding how others should express/respond in a string. I absolutely don't agree with what GSN said but I respect him and his right to give his opinion. Heck, that's why I posted the questions in the first place.
Honestly, try to have an open discussion without trying to stifle anyone else. The moderators here do an excellent job and if anyone is down right rude, they'll handle accordingly.
Another thing I don't understand is why some feel compelled to come right out and debase any artist so harshly and definitively. Is your opinion the final word? He is obviously highly regarded; no one can dispute that. So, he has some merit. Sure his style was different than others, but so what. You don't like different? Does it upset some for some reason? I like different. Actually I treasure it. If Winogrand took 100,000 shots to get 100 remarkable images, and another photographer took say 10,000 to get 100 remarkable images, who cares? And, do you think a HCB didn't have drawers full of stinkers?
Carterofmars
Well-known
Man I feel a pole coming on...
If anyone is interested... check the Pole Forum in a few.
If anyone is interested... check the Pole Forum in a few.
peterm1
Veteran
I think you experience it differently even if you just visit a new city location.
Last week I was in Melbourne Australia (I live in Adelaide a smaller city) and was impressed by its bustling nature - even though I go there reasonably often.
Here are a couple that I like as they (especially the first) have that characteristic you describe in my view simply because of the way people are closely packed and yet intently carrying out their own business (which in this case is drinking tea) I also liked the feeling of being on the outside looking in which is pretty common for a photogrpaher but usually less obvious. I would be hard pressed to find these shots in my city perhaps because its so familiar to me and perhaps also becasue its much smaller and less diverse......................................
Last week I was in Melbourne Australia (I live in Adelaide a smaller city) and was impressed by its bustling nature - even though I go there reasonably often.
Here are a couple that I like as they (especially the first) have that characteristic you describe in my view simply because of the way people are closely packed and yet intently carrying out their own business (which in this case is drinking tea) I also liked the feeling of being on the outside looking in which is pretty common for a photogrpaher but usually less obvious. I would be hard pressed to find these shots in my city perhaps because its so familiar to me and perhaps also becasue its much smaller and less diverse......................................
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robklurfield
eclipse
a big element for me is capturing for posterity an unexpected bit of humanity unfolding in front of me such as...
FIGHTING OFF HIS DEMONS, SECOND AVENUE, NYC
paulfish4570
Veteran
wow. i like peter's hello kitty shot and rob's street shot. talk about yer polar (bipolar?) opposites ...
Ranger Copy
One Stop Short
do you think the photographer was in a plane or hang gliding when taking this shot? anyway, to me and you don't have to share the same opinion, street photography is an unstaged human moment captured incognito(preferably), nothing more.
going anal :
<LI class="g w0">Answers.com - What is synonym of incognito
Synonyms and Antonyms question: What is synonym of incognito? unknown, isolated, unrecognized, hidden, anonymous.
wiki.answers.com › ... › Synonyms and Antonyms - Cached
<LI class="g w0">
a poor amature attempt attached using a minolta srt101
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Carterofmars
Well-known
Some really great images. Peter, Rob, and Damaso.
Rob, that one is powerful.
Rob, that one is powerful.
Ranger Copy
One Stop Short
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daninjc
Well-known
To the contrary I would argue that street photography has undergone a surge in popularity. It has never been cooler or trendier. The reasons? It's easy - anyone with a camera can go out and shoot and claim they're doing street photography. As a matter of fact they are. This brings to a second point that has been made over and over - the low quality of 99% of what is shown on the internet. The reaction to that is what is perceived as a disaffection for bad and generic street photography by someone who's a little more educated than the average.
[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT="] and street photography isn't appreciated as much as it used to be. That's too bad. What is the reason for that you think?
[/FONT][/QUOTE]
[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT="] and street photography isn't appreciated as much as it used to be. That's too bad. What is the reason for that you think?
[/FONT][/QUOTE]
Carterofmars
Well-known
[/quote]
Points well made, but I disagree with the education part. I don't think one needs an 'education' (boy that could be debated huh) to know a satisfying image when they see one.