A small but important detail about loading film with Kievs

R

ruben

Guest
I believe most of us use to load film in all of our cameras by the following proceeding:

a) Inserting the film tonge at the take up fixed spool

b) Inserting the film cassete at its corresponding chamber

c) Rewinding with the rewind knob to create a tension between the take up spool and the film cassete.

d) Close our camera and start with 2 or 3 blank frames. Since the film in our cassete is tight, we use the movement of the Rewind knob each time we wind, to comfirm that the film is indeed winding.

This I may call the classical way of doing it. But taking into account Noel's clarification that at the Contax and Kiev, the sprockets are the driving force, I went back to the Contax II and III manual, available by courtesy of Rick Oleson and Mike Kovacs, looking for the relevant recommendations about film loading.

And indeed, there are there two additional details to be taken care for when loading these cameras, going very much along the sprockets and not the take up spool being the drive force.

The first is to take care that film has engaged BOTH sprockets. Film bought from the store has a small tongue and this fact may usually convert this point into an automatic fact. But with bulk film we cut ourselves, we may produce somewhat longer tongues, and better we take care of the two sprockets issue.

The second is after producing the tension between the film cassete and the film at the take up spool, before closing our camera, to press a bit the center of the in-between area with our thumb, to further secure this tension an correct matching of film holes to both sprockets. At Kievs and Contaxes, film must run from side to side perfectly straight.


BTW, i am not sure but it seems to me I have read at the English Kiev manual, a dispute about tensioning the film within the film cassete as this may leave traces of friction on the film. Yet, all my life I never had a single trace of friction with my tensioned films. Of course tensioning the film cassete, after closing the camera, like anything else, should be done with a minimum of sensitivity and common sense.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
Last edited by a moderator:
ruben said:
I believe most of us use to load film in all of our cameras by the following proceeding:

a) Inserting the film tonge at the take up fixed spool

b) Inserting the film cassete at its corresponding chamber

c) Rewinding with the rewind knob to create a tension between the take up spool and the film cassete.

d) Close our camera and start with 2 or 3 blank frames. Since the film in our cassete is tight, we use the movement of the Rewind knob each time we wind, to comfirm that the film is indeed winding.

This I may call the classical way of doing it.

In which case, Ruben, I think you are mistaken. Whilst the first stage in loading a 35mm bottom loader is to insert the tongue into the take up spool, in a conventional backloader I would suggest that most photographers insert the film cartridge in the chamber and then place the tongue in the take up spool and wind on a bit. It saves having the cassette flailing about🙂

If its good enuf fer Nikon, its good enuf fer me 🙂 -
http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/manuals/nikonf/nikonfmanual/loading.htm

For all that, I strongly agree that everything "should be done with a minimum of sensitivity and common sense"!

Cheers, Ian
 
Last edited:
Hallo Ruben 🙂

Everyone does what's best for them - but I know that if I loaded spool first, I'd manage to pull out half the cassette and drop the camera 🙂

But that's me 🙂

All the best, Ian
 
I accept too, insofar it is your film and your camera. 😀

But seriously speaking, camera dropping when exchanging film is an issue. In my opinion film should not be exchanged without camera strap wristed to our arm. Yet with Kiev and Contaxes and a few other cameras, we face a situation in which we have to choose between attaching our strap to the camera ears, and disregarding the camera case, or using the camera case and remain strapless when exchanging film, as show pretty well at the abovementioned Contax manual.

This for me is unacceptable. Therefore at the leather chapter of the Kiev Project I will show how to adapt our cases to enable us carry them and at the same time the strap being attached directly to the camera.


Cheers,
Ruben
 
Last edited by a moderator:
With the Zorki/FED/Kievs that have removeable take up spools, I do it a bit differently. I spool the film on to the take up reel, ensuring that the tongue is engaged properly. I then extend the film and place the both the canister and the take up spool into the camera. I then wind the film a bit ensuring that the sprockets line up with the holes. The back then goes on. Picture taking proceeds as normal. Takes a bit more work, but I have not had a film jam or spacing problem due to my error. I have had a Z3M eat some film, but that was due to mechanical failure of the camera and not operator error. Of course, I load my Nikon F3 tongue first and then slide the film canister across. The back is then closed and the the film is advanced via the motor drive. In the F3 I can reload in about 5-10 seconds. Much faster on a good day. YMMV
 
I believe that in all our classic cameras, (not motor-driven) it is the sprockets that provide the drive to advance the film. This is not unique to the Kiev/Contax.
 
The film is pulled with the spool and the sprockets, with the spool turning a little extra and slipping when it gets ahead of the sprockets. The sprockets therefore determine the spacing whereas the spool + slippage keeps tension on the film.

I like to hook the film on the take-up spool before dropping it into the camera, a'la Leica screw mount but whatever works for whomever is fine.

I much prefer my new Contax G1 film loading 😛
 
I'm sure there *was* a reason for it, but to me, the idea of removeable take up spool is more weird than well-thought.

I now dread trying to load up my Kiev 4A for the "trauma" I had when I tried to load my former Zorki 4. The removable take up spool keeps slipping on its own when any film tension is applied to it. Very frustrating!
 
f2eyelevel said:
Yes there was. The reason is called the reloadable film cassettes system. It allowed for a fast film switch without having to rewind (and rewind, and rewind, and rewind).


There is another aspect very much practical: mid-roll film exchange with a commercial cassete as the feeding one, and the Kiev/Contax cassete at the take up side.

I am thinking about joining two plastic canisters with adhesive tape, each one with a cut along the length, to deposit there the 2 cassetes after mid roll exchange.

The Kiev/Contax cassete is supposed to hold the film still, so the space of film left is to be rewinded by hand to the commercial cassete, and then the whole compound could be deposited in the device i am thinking about. You will just have to carry a marker to write on the film the frame number as read at the dial and return the dial to that number, when re-inserting.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
Eh? there seems to be a removed response to my post above. Good reason too, from what I can gather from what's quoted by Ruben.

Wonder why it's removed?
 
Back
Top Bottom