A very poor warranty experience with Leica

[leicapixie]

I see somethings have changed!
Leica used to have service facilities, fully operational everywhere..
My Leica M3(brand new) arrived in 1967.
If i had internet would have known about M4..
Actually prefer the M3.
THE M3 HAD PARTS MISSING IN RANGEFINDER.
It had final assembly in South Africa.
An apology arrived 9 months later, also saying some customers were too fussy!!
Some companies are so arrogant.
Not only Leica but others, Kodak as sample.

I wrote as they were in "receivership" about the sensors they made, in which cameras..
I love the colors and BW.(magenta black i am familiar with).
Kodak wrote back.."None of your business.."
I bought Canon digital cameras..
The M3 is still in service and thankfully independent service folk here in Toronto and close by.
I would demand NEW lens.

 

[chaospress]

If they don't respond right away I'd just ask/demand my money back. Let the dealer deal with Leica regarding this lens and leave you out of it.

I think the choice you should have made is to return for a refund or exchange from the dealer right off the bat. That's the safest way to go in these situations. Get your money back and buy a new lens, or if these aren't available look for a used one or something else new that will serve the same function.

 

[Jhausler]

18 month warranty? What warranty period do Leica offer in the US? And do US dealers have no responsibility for handing over a product without obvious flaws?

I mentioned this earlier, but its only 18 month since it's a Code-U, which is Leica speak for "refurbished". It still had to go through Leica quality control before it went to the dealer. I purchased Code-U Leica binoculars before and I couldn't tell them from New.

In essence, this lens has passed quality 3 times without actually being of high quality.

To another poster, yes.. the fingerprint was on the original workorder.

One of the reasons I dont pick up a Nokton and buy a trip to Cuba is that I usually keep a Leica lens for a year, and then sell it for a different lens. I really wanted to use this one for a bit. The price I bought it for is within a few hundred dollars of most resale prices I've seen here and on FM.

Also, 2 kids including a 10 week old (a big reason for the lens)... wouldn't make for as fun of a Cuba trip.

i'll update on Monday once I speak with my dealer. Getting the refund has always been an open option for me, so that's not an issue. Thanks all..

 

[rscheffler]

Leica's average service turnaround is pathetic. You spend a huge premium for the product and are forced to endure a 1-2 months wait on lens repairs at Leica NJ. I guess sending it to Germany is even worse.

I have visited Leica NJ in person twice in the last year or so for on the spot service of my M240. In this respect, they were very accommodating by offering same day service by prior arrangement. Once for sensor cleaning (a very stubborn spot I couldn't remove after repeated attempts) and once for RF calibration. Both times I discussed the generally poor service turnaround times with the CSR, who was extremely apologetic and was very much aware that it was a problem for Leica's customers... Supposedly they're working on it, but who knows!

I've been a longtime Canon CPS member and use their DSLRs in combination with my Leica kit for much of what I do. With Canon I get 3-4 day turnaround and an immediate loaner if I need it... That might be asking too much of Leica, but should at least be a model for them to follow. If service will take a long time, then provide loaners. If I have a loaner, then I don't really care how long the repair takes. It's up to Leica to work faster to get the loaner back in their pool... But as it stands now, I paid for the gear and am the one 'suffering' if it is unavailable while at Leica for servicing.

To tell my own 50 Lux ASPH story: I have the silver version, bought used in 2011 when it was nearly impossible to find any Leica M glass (at reasonable street prices). I received it out of ideal optical calibration - it was rather soft and glowy wide open. Leica Germany fixed it when I was there on a trip, and had them do it with their paid express service, so it only took a week. But they botched the repair - the lens couldn't focus to infinity. I sent it back the next time I was in Germany and it was fixed properly. Except within an hour of receiving the lens, the lens hood and front filter ring, fell off! I discovered that the whole assembly was held in place with what appeared to be a single tiny screw and a few dabs of glue. I don't think this was specifically a result of them doing a poor repair, rather the parts worked loose due to my tendency to handle the lens by the hood, which probably put a lot of stress on that single screw. (A hint to others - handle the lens other than by the hood!) It just added to the feeling that the lens was problematic.

Anyway, I lived with the filter ring taped back on for a couple years until the focusing mechanism had worked itself loose/wobbly, resulting in lost RF calibration and very soft wide open images, again. So gave it to Leica NJ. It took about a month as a 'pro rush' service. Got it back and everything was fine. Except about six months later the focus mechanism was loose again and images were starting to look too glowy for normal wide open performance. So sent it back and Leica NJ replaced the entire focus mount/helicoid (under warranty from the previous repair, which was appreciated). The lens came back feeling much tighter/better for focus action. Except now the infinity hard stop put actual focus beyond infinity. This is not a good thing, especially because I use the lens a lot at the infinity hard stop. Even stopped down by f/8 and I could discern a loss in sharpness in images set to the infinity hard stop as opposed to those carefully focused via the EVF (which was extremely evident at wider apertures). Bottom line was it wasn't right and messed up my shooting style. I complained to Leica and was told to send in the lens and camera, I guess to make sure it wasn't the camera being out. I was able to test the lens on another M body, and it focused past infinity there, too. Normally I wouldn't worry much about sending the camera with the lens. However, I regularly use the camera for paid work and can't be without it for 1-2 months. I have other 50s and can get by without the lens, though would prefer to have it. I explained this to Leica NJ in a number of emails to get a shipping label to send in just the lens, unless they could provide a loaner body in the interim. Silence. For some reason, I have received no replies from them on subsequent messages. Yes, i should phone them... Prior to this I always received an email reply within 24 hours...

During the previous service for the lens, I asked if they could supply a loaner and was told it might be possible. I was also told it might be possible to service it in a couple weeks. So I sent in the lens and was then told I could *possibly* get a 75 Summarit. Seriously? I have nothing against the Summarit line, and the 75 is an excellent lens. But if I want to use a 50mm, I don't reach for a 75... Oh, and was then also told it would take at least a month, if not more... 🙁

My feeling is the 50 Lux ASPH is not a simple lens to disassemble and then get back into perfect calibration. The floating element system probably adds considerably to the complexity. The amount of focus ring movement required to bring my lens back to correct infinity focus is very, very small. Maybe 1mm, yet when it's focused past infinity, the results are horrible, and as mentioned, you have to stop down to at least f/8 to regain close to equivalent image sharpness compared to correctly focused images...

 

[Dektol Dan]

My Experience

My Experience

Leica service for me has been good over the last 50 years, maybe it's because I'm old or just an old customer. NJ folks have been great, but if the item in question has to be sent Germany expect a 30 days delay, but my last one was 27 days to my door step.

 

[Bille]

Have you tried contacting customer.care@leica-camera.com directly?

 

[:: Mark]

As someone who has been using Leica film camera for almost a year, with a view to migrating my Canon kit to Leica digital, I can not say that threads like this are encouraging.

Leica is already badly compromised for the price they request (in terms of Lens performance, sensors, VF eye-relief, outdated EVFs, lockups, etc). Why given the above thread would anyone with a serious intent to use a camera or lens willingly buy from Leica today?

I think that it is quite telling that my more than 13 year old Leica M7 was bought in as-new condition. I wonder what fraction of Leica's customers for new lenses and cameras actually use their cameras and lenses for anymore than the most casual use? Beyond the notable enthusiasts on forums like this, I suspect the answer is very few.

 

[KM-25]

In addition to some very robust systems like Nikon and Hasselblad which I rarely have issues with, I use a small kit of Leica in key areas like a 35mm 1.4 and 50mm 2.0, a couple film cameras and an M240.

In consideration of using the equipment professionally, I am totally resigned to the idea that good clean used gear is best, the return policies for evaluating it is mostly adequate and having to send the equipment in to DAG, Youxin or Sherry for regular maintenance is a much better option than Leica taking the gear out of commission for what could be months. In other words, to hell with Leica's warranty, I can't work like that, would need to buy another lens while they take their sweet time with the gear.

I think the atrocious service times and Q/C would do Leica in much faster than the notion of the high price of the gear. I love using the stuff, but it seems to fall out of calibration or becomes loose much easier than any gear I have ever owned, so I enjoy it when it is working but never-ever rely on it solely on a paid job.

It's too bad Leica does not offer something similar to NPS that they might even charge an annual fee for that would include repair loans, max service times of 3 weeks, etc. It would really only work if they restricted it to actual working photographers instead of legions of Leica toting enthusiasts....I'd pay $300-$400 a year for that.

 

[Dektol Dan]

Working Leica Photographers

Working Leica Photographers

What's that?
I mean, what's a working photographer?
I guess I've become a hobbyist for doing artsyphartsyphotography.

 

[KM-25]

What's that?
I mean, what's a working photographer?
I guess I've become a hobbyist for doing artsyphartsyphotography.

Working as in doing photography for a full time living, in my case, high end advertising, corporate photojournalism and fine art. Loving it just as much as anyone else....but getting paid really well to do it.

NPS / CPS makes it to where working photographers are not out of luck if gear goes down...we can't have spares of every single thing folks so loaner gear is often key. I own repair manuals and a very good set of tools including a filter thread tool for when I am in the field for days on end....NPS / CPS can't help you there, lol.

 

[Huss]

I think that it is quite telling that my more than 13 year old Leica M7 was bought in as-new condition. I wonder what fraction of Leica's customers for new lenses and cameras actually use their cameras and lenses for anymore than the most casual use? Beyond the notable enthusiasts on forums like this, I suspect the answer is very few.

I wouldn't doubt that the majority of Leica owners are not Leica users.
Just another pretty bauble which is why Leica provides this level of 'service' to customers with issues. Most Leica customers do not have issues because they do not use their gear...

This lack of customer service really bothers me, whereas celebs like Seal can waltz into any Leica Store and get given what they want for free.
(This is true, I had a conversation with an employee at a Leica Store who complained about it. I will not mention which store so as to protect the innocent)

 

[pepeguitarra]

Buying in the USA

Buying in the USA

I only buy stuff at Adorama or B&H. If a brand new lens or equipment is no good, I return it immediately and get a refund or a new replacement. I only bought used items from Miami Leica store. The Los Angeles Leica store seems that was built for rich people of Beverly Hills. The do not bother in paying attention when you ask questions about used equipment. Leica NY replaced the sensor on my M9 with no problems. A little bit of lack of communication, but a relatively quick job (3 months)

 

[gwgchase]

Unfortunately, my recent experience with a lens that needed to go back to Germany was 6 mos. It would have been easier on the folks in NJ had they not quoted 4-5 wks.

Twenty years with Canon, until they refused to repair a lens that stopped focussing properly because it was too old. My romp with Leica has been fun, but the days are feeling numbered when a lens is out of service and out of my hands for half a year.

 

[chaospress]

I just sent my first M240 back to the dealer because it wasn't functioning perfectly. In the process I considered sending it to Leica and they told me the turnaround time would be relatively short because they prioritize the M240. I suppose for an electronic issue on one of their digital cameras they're the only ones who can fix it, whereas with a lens you can choose to send to DAG or Sherry. Now for the 2nd try I'm debating between new, pre-owned, and used with 30 day warranty. I wonder if service is faster for repairs paid for than those covered by warranty.

The appointed drop in service does sound like the best way to go if you live near NJ or one of the Leica stores.

10 years ago I had an M7 that froze up. Had to send it to NJ a 2nd time before they fixed it, but turnaround time as I recall wasn't that bad. They replaced the coil for very reasonable cost even though warranty had expired, because I told them the camera was new enough that it shouldn't break down.

One other thing is that bad things are almost always followed by complaints- today in detail publicly on the internet, while good service rarely warrants a post, so it's hard to tell how much worse customer service actually is than others. We all pretty much know that Leica makes a product that is superb when it works, but probably isn't as reliable as more mass consumer oriented camera makers.

 

[Phil_F_NM]

I had barely acceptable service from Leica and horrible reliability. This was with both an M8 and M9. The former was bought factory refurbished with a warranty and latter was bought new and went right back to Leica three days after purchase. I've complained a lot on this forum about the quality of the digital bodies and the service I got from Leica.
That is why they won't get one more cent from me. There is enough good used film gear out there with some fine lenses that I'll never have to deal with Leica although I may shoot with one.

Phil Forrest

 

[jaapv]

Just a thought: Leica offers express service. It seems nobody on this thread availed themselves of it...

 

[f16sunshine]

I had barely acceptable service from Leica and horrible reliability. This was with both an M8 and M9. The former was bought factory refurbished with a warranty and latter was bought new and went right back to Leica three days after purchase. I've complained a lot on this forum about the quality of the digital bodies and the service I got from Leica. That is why they won't get one more cent from me. There is enough good used film gear out there with some fine lenses that I'll never have to deal with Leica although I may shoot with one. Phil Forrest

It's these types of stories that are real head shakers.
How do they refurbish but not refurbish?
New cameras that don't pass final inspection but somehow... Passes final inspection????
What Are they doing in Germany?

Where does accountability lie?
The list of chronic issues in Leica's near history seems unacceptably long for a brand with a very limited catalog of products.

Still loved my m8 days and the images I squeezed out of it.
The "ticking sound" was just too much to carry on.

Maybe the Q and it's future siblings will bring a new era 🙂

 

[Addy101]

As someone who has been using Leica film camera for almost a year, with a view to migrating my Canon kit to Leica digital, I can not say that threads like this are encouraging.

A few posts down from yours, somebody gave an example of the (lack of) service by Canon. Do a search and you never want to buy anything Canon - Nikon denies fundamental problems in their cameras, Sony also isn't without its problems. Customers service is something you hardly can do right.

It seems you're in Europe as you state Barcelona. Experiences in the US are more or less irrelevant to us (except that Canon thing where they won't touch an older lens :bang🙂. We are protected by European customer laws: 14 day no-question-asked right to return the product, two years warranty (for new or refurbished products) and rules when you can ask your money back. Also, it is the shop that is responsible for honouring the warranty, not the manufacturer. Buy locally and hold the seller responsible.

People tend to complain with Sony customer service also, I however have only good experiences with Sony Netherlands in this regard. People have different experiences.
I don't have any dealings with Leica, so, I can't speak from experience.

 

[KM-25]

Just a thought: Leica offers express service. It seems nobody on this thread availed themselves of it...

Uh-huh...just did a google search and found nothing so....got a link?

 

[btgc]

Service, regular or express, is meant for those cases not covered by warranty. If purchased item is flawed it's totally wrong not to replace item or refund, instead grinding customer through repair.

This days when you can get replaced even cheap electronics, big players should catch up to the level or customers will do their move. Some will not, of course. So it's a gamble - how many will stay and how many will move on.