A very strange shutter problem in a Zorki-1

[tho60]

Hello Buddies!

Thank you for your support. A week ago I bought an unusual Zorki-1, originally fitted with Jupiter-8 lens and special carrying case. I was very happy because I paid a bargain price for it.

When I took apart the camera for examination and a minor CLA, I found dirt and film chips inside. These prove that this camera was used. However, I encountered a very strange problem which makes unable my Zorki to shoot. Winding the shutter, there is a very narrow slit (about 1/5th millimetre) between the curtain laths, thus light can enter inadvertently on the surface of the film. I tried to change the curtain tension, but I could not affect the situation.

In addition, this Zorki is very loud- the loudest among my FSU Leica clones. 😡


I would have 3 questions:
1. What is the remedy for this problem?
2. How could the original owner use the camera, if this malfunction was due to an improper shutter assembly in the plant?
3. How can one make the camera more silent, whisper-quiet- as a Leica?

Thanks!

 

[wolves3012]

The camera may have had the curtains replaced and the job was not done properly. It may also be that is was assembled incorrectly from new. From new, the camera would have had stitched curtain edges and most replacements aren't - which do you have? If they are not stitched then you can safely say they've been replaced.

It may be possible to use the camera, by using a lens cap whilst winding on. This could explain how it was used.

The remedy is to strip the camera and re-position the curtains correctly, which will not be an easy task without properly marked positions to work to. Altering the curtain tensions will not affect the overlap, at least no more than a microscopic amount due to fabric-stretch.

As for making it quiet - a full CLA (with emphasis on careful adjustments) might quieten it down a lot. Then again, it may not - they do vary! I have one Zorki 1 that is noticeably quieter than my Leica IIIC but all my other FSUs are at least as noisy as it and some are noisier still.

 

[tho60]

The camera may have had the curtains replaced and the job was not done properly. It may also be that is was assembled incorrectly from new. From new, the camera would have had stitched curtain edges and most replacements aren't - which do you have? If they are not stitched then you can safely say they've been replaced.

It may be possible to use the camera, by using a lens cap whilst winding on. This could explain how it was used.

The remedy is to strip the camera and re-position the curtains correctly, which will not be an easy task without properly marked positions to work to. Altering the curtain tensions will not affect the overlap, at least no more than a microscopic amount due to fabric-stretch.

As for making it quiet - a full CLA (with emphasis on careful adjustments) might quieten it down a lot. Then again, it may not - they do vary! I have one Zorki 1 that is noticeably quieter than my Leica IIIC but all my other FSUs are at least as noisy as it and some are noisier still.

I would have started an other thread regarding the curtain replacement- but I am asking you: is it a very difficult job? I have read some tutorials on the Internet which explain how to do, yet I did not dare to start on. I have some 3 cameras which would need new curtains.

Answering your question: this Zorki has stiched curtain edges and the curtain was made of thick cloth. It must be original.

 

[tho60]

How to replace the curtains in this Zorki, if I could not use the original ribbons as templates, because they was installed wrongly at the plant?

 

[wolves3012]

I presume you've looked at Jay Javier's excellent site on curtain replacement:
http://jay.fedka.com/index_files/Page455.htm
This will show you what's involved. It's not *that* difficult to do if you have the tools and some mechanical aptitude. It is tedious and time-consuming, especially as you'll probably need several attempts. The worst you can do is, of course, break it for good but that would require some carelessness. Second-worst scenario is that you take it apart and are unable to re-assemble it correctly.

If the curtains are original, as seems likely, then maybe they've been detached at some point in its life, accidentally or otherwise. Who knows, you'll never get to the bottom of that question of whether it was faulty from new.

As for re-positioning them, you'll only need to re-position the curtain that wraps around the large drum. I would suggest dismantling, mark the existing position very carefully and then remove and re-attach the curtain with a small gap compared to the marks you made. You will have to estimate this gap, there needs to be a slight overlap of the laths with the shutter un-cocked. Probably the best way would be to re-attach with a strip of double-sided tape; this will allow you to keep repositioning until the correct position is found. Then you can make a permanent fix with glue. Make sure there is still a slit when the shutter is fired at 1/500th, this will be the critical speed to check. I'd suggest the "CRT monitor/TV screen" check to ensure there's no capping etc.

You could also move the other curtain across by re-fixing the tapes on the same end of the shutter but I'd say that's harder since you need to move them past any marks and do so equally to keep the curtain "square" to its travel.

 

[Frontman]

I've replaced the curtains in a couple of Zorkis, and it wasn't all that hard. You should be able to close the gap on your curtains by detaching the ribbons on one of the curtains and repositioning them on the drum/roller. Carefully adjusting the shutter curtain tension will quiet down the camera quite a bit.

 

[tho60]

[FONT=&quot]Hello![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Thanks a lot![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I have checked the following sites:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://aki-asahi.com/store/html/shutter-curtain/inst/02.html[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://stephenc7.tripod.com/cameras/fed2.htm[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://jay.fedka.com/index_files/Page455.htm[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]They give a good overview, but without much mechanical experience I would invoke some courage to begin. Moreover, I do not have straight razor for cutting the curtains, Pliobond glue and so on. In your opinion, may I use common glue for fastening the curtains and ribbons onto the pulleys?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“I would suggest dismantling, mark the existing position very carefully and then remove and re-attach the curtain with a small gap compared to the marks you made.” In which direction regarding the marks?[/FONT]

 

[batterytypehah!]

I haven't had to replace any curtains yet, but if/when the time comes, this is the most thorough set of instructions I've found:

http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/leicashutter.pdf

You will need to invest in some tools but a good set of small screwdrivers and a "Zorkikat wrench" from Jay's website goes a long way. Pliobond is just a brand name. Any other contact cement should do. (Contact cement is the stuff you spread thinly on both pieces and let dry for a few minutes before pressing them together. It has a bad reputation because of the kids that sniff it to get high.)

Go slowly, work in some kind of tray to catch small parts that get away, and take a lot of pictures with a digicam as you go.

 

[Frontman]

[FONT=&quot]Hello![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Thanks a lot![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I have checked the following sites:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://aki-asahi.com/store/html/shutter-curtain/inst/02.html[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://stephenc7.tripod.com/cameras/fed2.htm[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://jay.fedka.com/index_files/Page455.htm[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]They give a good overview, but without much mechanical experience I would invoke some courage to begin. Moreover, I do not have straight razor for cutting the curtains, Pliobond glue and so on. In your opinion, may I use common glue for fastening the curtains and ribbons onto the pulleys?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“I would suggest dismantling, mark the existing position very carefully and then remove and re-attach the curtain with a small gap compared to the marks you made.” In which direction regarding the marks?[/FONT]

I use garden-variety rubber cement. You don't need a razor to cut the curtains/ribbons, a razor blade or sharp scissors will do.

As you will probably want the curtain to close more fully, look at the rollers where the ribbons are attached, mark the rollers at the end of the ribbons, remove the ribbons, then glue them back in place 3mm or so in the direction of rotation. This should allow the curtain to close a further 3mm, and eliminate the gap.

 

[wolves3012]

I
As you will probably want the curtain to close more fully, look at the rollers where the ribbons are attached, mark the rollers at the end of the ribbons, remove the ribbons, then glue them back in place 3mm or so in the direction of rotation. This should allow the curtain to close a further 3mm, and eliminate the gap.

If by that you mean the tension rollers, the positioning on those rollers has no effect whatever. 3mm is also far too much, based on the OP where he said there's a 1/5mm gap. If he moves the overlap by 3mm he'll have no exposure at 1/500th and shorter ones at the other speeds too.

 

[wolves3012]

[FONT=&quot]Hello![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Thanks a lot![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I have checked the following sites:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://aki-asahi.com/store/html/shutter-curtain/inst/02.html[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://stephenc7.tripod.com/cameras/fed2.htm[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://jay.fedka.com/index_files/Page455.htm[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]They give a good overview, but without much mechanical experience I would invoke some courage to begin. Moreover, I do not have straight razor for cutting the curtains, Pliobond glue and so on. In your opinion, may I use common glue for fastening the curtains and ribbons onto the pulleys?[/FONT]

The glue I've used is called Evo-Stik. As noted, it's just a contact-glue that you apply to both surfaces and allow to dry before joining. You should be able to find something similar locally without trouble. I believe the original glue was shellac but that would take some time to dry and is also a bit brittle.

[FONT=&quot]“I would suggest dismantling, mark the existing position very carefully and then remove and re-attach the curtain with a small gap compared to the marks you made.” In which direction regarding the marks?[/FONT]

In the direction of travel, in other words so that you see your marking and have a gap between it and the curtain end. If you move the ribbons instead, the reverse is true - your marks must disappear by the amount desired. That's why I suggest moving the curtain, it'll be easier to judge accurately.

 

[tho60]

Thanks a lot.