About Fresh Shtrudel & Medium Format Film Facilities

[ruben]

Warning: This post is specially and personally dedicated against my very good friend Bill Mattock, who whenever is not online at RFF he must be very busy finding any piece of evidence, or possible evidence, sustaining his original thesis, that film is going to dissapear. (The reason for the following possible anti-thesis may flow from the fact that while my surname is Bittermann, Bill's surname translated into Hebrew, means "sweet").

So let's start with the most important: the shtrudel. Since I wrote that thread about my wanderings where I could possibly find shtrudel, it took me a while but slow slow, here and there, shtrudel came to the surface. Today I am aware of several places, finding their climax at the Jerusalem Theatre Coffee Shop, where a small and unpossible to satisfy piece, yet exquisite, costed eight dollars. Multiply it per two for a single head, and you have left sixteen dollars before the coffee, the tip, your wife, etc.

No doubt the day I will be again at Central Europe, I wouldl gladly pay eight dollars, although I am afraid it will cost there much more.

So the issue became where it would be possible for me to find here a very good shtrudel at a more human sized price. And I happened to find the place, where a highly good shtrudel is sold as an entire block to take home, against eight dollars !!!. The roll measures some 30 cm length, and some 9 cm wide. But there is a single place at the heart of West Jerusalem, where such a good shtrudel at such non-existant price is sold. Shtrudel no problem, but good shtrudel - some of a logistical problem. Fine.

Now regarding the film.
I think it will be a fair assestment that I have not missed any available opportunity to slander my country, including for being too a small a market to buy anything. And specially West Jerusalem, a sector inhabitated by some one hundred and fifty thousand fellow Jews, a third of them being highly poor income religious orthodox Jews, and another third quite poor non orthodox fellow Jews. Now imagine yourself how many fellows are left using film...

Yet it seems that the same globalization supposedly steamrollering the good things of the past, is producing the contrary effect as well.

I have no other explanation for what happened when I entered this evening at "Photo Prizma", after a decade in which I might have been there twice, and asked about their one hour processing facilities, which fairly are a very side service they perform.

First, I asked if they have facilities to process 120 medium format color film. "Yes". Then I asked if they can also process 220 color film. "Yes". Then I asked if they can process 120 black and white medium format films destinated for C-41 machines. "Yes".

Now comes the most interesting. I asked if they can push process 120 medium format black and white film destinated to C-41 machines. "Yes". Ok at this point I became doubious and asked how, isn't it an automatic machine ?

"Yes" they said, but we can extend the time of the developer stage. And they have done it many times so they are versatile in their craft. As a further example I was told they have a certain German client arriving yearly with 6 x 17 film and asking for push processing.

Fine. So much Ok that something must be unavailable, after all we are not at a developed country. So I started to ask about scaning medium format film after processing. "No problem, but it is priced by frame". Each frame a dollar and half.

So dear folks, if this is going on in the poor and unsignificant Middle Eastern quarter of West Jerusalem, kindly save those horror stories about Wall Mart, No Smart. or whatever.

And the shtrudel ? It happens that The place where it is sold, is just about a few hundred meters from Photo Prizma. Yes, I went there to celebrate.

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[Gumby]

Hmmm. I learn something new every day. I never knew anyone in their right mind would pay $8/slice of strudel. Nor did I know that there was chromogenic B&W available in 120.

I'm glad you found reasonably priced strudel... and glad you found a decent place to get your film processed. I hope their quality is as good as you expect.

Life is good for you right now!

 

[ruben]

Hmmm. I learn something new every day. I never knew anyone in their right mind would pay $8/slice of strudel. .........

I agree, and despite being aware of the high price I couldn't but order a second slice.

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[ruben]

About five seconds of Googling drove me to :

http://israelity.com/2008/09/18/eating-apfelstrudel-in-the-old-city/

:angel:

Yeap !, it never crossed my mind to google in order to find strudel in the city where I live - but you are right:

http://www.jerusalemite.net/guides/806/austrian-hospice-café

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[oftheherd]

My day cannot be complete until Bill chimes in with his take on this.

Have you built up your ramparts Ruben? 😀 😀 😀

 

[ruben]

...... Nor did I know that there was chromogenic B&W available in 120............

The one I bought is Ilford XP2 iso 400 (and the guy I was talking with told me the best results will be using it at iso 800.

Btw, about Ilford XP2 in 135mm format, some 12 years ago I happened to process it manually at home and I obtained really astonishing results.

As for other chromogenic medium format BW films, I think there are some Kodak ones called TCN, or something like this.

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[venchka]

Kodak BW400CN to be exact.

 

[ruben]

My day cannot be complete until Bill chimes in with his take on this.

Have you built up your ramparts Ruben? 😀 😀 😀

There is no point. No rampart is able to stop Bill's humorous arsenal.

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[ruben]

XP2 is actually rather a ISO 200 film so expose it to ISO 200 not 400 nor 800. It bears some overexposure quite remarkably well ; if underexposed, the shadows will be dark and grainy with no information. It's a C41 film - logical.

Point accounted.

Do you have any explanation why the manual processing gave me an outstanding result ?

The only thing I remember is that the developer stage was specially long - but the tonal range at the prints ....

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[ruben]

Well, no. Are you sure it was that very film ? Home processing C41 films isn't possible.

A hundred percent sure. Btw, even color film can be home processed with BW chemicals, rendering of course a monochomic result. I have done this once too, by fortunate mistake. As for the quality, I really do not remember.

As for XP2, if my memory doesn't default me, Ilford at the time promoted an alternative home developing kit. My processing was not with that kit.

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[Nikon Bob]

Ruben

I don't see how your situation regarding film is unusual or entirely unexpected. The digital wave may not have hit your area and there is enough of a market to process film for the locals and tourists. The same is likely true in larger cities in North America but in many smaller centers it is getting harder to find a great variety in 35mm film on store shelves and harder yet to find 120 or 220. It is not impossible just getting harder than it was even two years ago. Getting 35mm developed locally is no problem for me and for 120 there is only one place in a city of 100,000 pop.. OTH I am happy that you have found a strudel source, I am a fellow addict. Never would I pay $8 for a small piece of strudel though.

Bob

 

[Micky D]

Well, no. Are you sure it was that very film ? Home processing C41 films isn't possible.

Nonsense. Plenty of folks do it all the time.
Ilford marketed a kit for XP1 back in the day.

 

[Dave Wilkinson]

A hundred percent sure. Btw, even color film can be home processed with BW chemicals, rendering of course a monochomic result. I have done this once too, by fortunate mistake. As for the quality, I really do not remember.

As for XP2, if my memory doesn't default me, Ilford at the time promoted an alternative home developing kit. My processing was not with that kit.

Cheers,
Ruben

Years ago, when it was XP1 Ilford did indeed sell a dedicated dev. kit - I wish it was still available!. I have processed C41 at home, but can get develop-only for 99p.! at Tesco (UK) 🙂
Dave.

 

[ruben]

...........Otherwise, any longer developing time (for instance from a more diluted developer soup) will result in a very wide greyscales curve with many grey levels but very few contrast, which isn't a good thing sometimes..............

I don't follow you here why "any longer developing time" is connected by you to "(for instance from a more diluted developer soup)".

My home xp2 single time processing was done with a standard dilution (most chances as for Tri-X) but "overdeveloped" in terms of time . Overdeveloped in terms of a standard iso 400 film. Some 12 or 16 minutes.

Now I ask myself, where the idea of "overdeveloping" came from ? I speculate that the instructions of the home processing kit were to process for such a long time and I took my chances of repeating the times without the precise kit.
But I am truly speculating.

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[MartinP]

It is simple to develop C41 film at home, whether chromogenic b+w or colour negative. There are several kits available to make a set of chemicals for a dozen films, eg. here in NL one can find one by Tetenal.

C41 films do contain silver. It is removed during the processing and is a valuable side-product that can be recovered, and indeed should be if you are processing on a commercial scale.

C41 can be developed in standard ID11 etc. - usually without being very convenient to print, due to the orange tint which is present in everything except XP2 !

The only time I tried this was looooong ago with XP1, but I unfortunately guessed wrong and underdeveloped it - and I didn't repeat the effort to find the 'right' time as normal b+w film was cheaper and easier. Congratulations to Ruben for getting it right, and having a local(-ish) place that will develop C41 120 !

Plus, now I will deliberately look for apple-strudel if I am ever in Jerusalem 😉

 

[vdonovan]

Hi Ruben, I always enjoy reading your posts. They are always thoughtful and full of humor. All I have to say is: it's a good thing you live in a developing country.

 

[Igor.Burshteyn]

Ruben, that was exactly my experience but in Raanana - I entered the lab (one of a few in the city) and asked same questions on C41 120 film processing, got same answers as you did!
Not sure about strudel, though.

 

[Michael I.]

I use PANDA labs in TEL AVIV to process all of my C-41, E-6 and some BW film - they process it by hand or useing jobo processors,with archival wash. Their prices are reasonable. They also process movie film.

They wet print color and bw up to 2.6 meteres - museum quality(they work with museums and artist), again, for a decent price.

They process\print every media from 35mm to 8x10 plates including glass and possibly subminiature. They scan 35 and 120 for sure, bigger formats I cant vouch for.

I am aware of at least two more labs that process 120 in Tel Aviv(SHEBAH-SBY and HAFOTO). I think there are several more (fotofilm,bromide).

If you want any more info, feel free to PM me.

 

[oftheherd]

As an aside, for any in the Washington, DC area, Dominion in Falls Church, VA, not only sells all all film formats, at least up to 4x5 (maybe more but I haven't inquired), they develop in house (except of course K-chrome). You won't get Walgreen or Costco prices, but you will get professional results. The last time I inquired, they did have the chromogenic 120 too, and they process all c-41 on site.

Sad to say, no strudel.

 

[ruben]

Ruben, that was exactly my experience but in Raanana - I entered the lab (one of a few in the city) and asked same questions on C41 120 film processing, got same answers as you did!
Not sure about strudel, though.

for the sake of the non-Israeli reader, be it a lone RFF member living up there on the hills, or a kind guest in her/his way to the same hills, it should be clarifyied that Raanana city is something even smaller than commercial Jerusalem (commercial Jerusalem excluding the tourist spots). On the other hand I guess it is a much more wealthy city.

Jerusalem the tourists do not see ranks among the poorest cities of Israel. From bottom to top, in a very general view, it encomprises four levels of income. At the bottom bottom the Palestinian population, some of which have the lowest income work, but unemployment is high.

Then the Jewish religiuos Orthodox population, suffering from chronic anachronistic religious brakes preventing many many of the males to work, plus multi-children families.

Then the non religious Jewish lower income class (traditionally, the massive placement of new Jewish inmigrants has been aimed first of all to change the demographic "disbalance" of the city vis a vis the Palestinians, but as you can understand most new inmigrants are new poor people).

And then, at the upper level left I place all other folks enjoying from an average low decent income upwards. The problem is that alongside the artificially inflated constant immigration, there is a massive constant emigration from the young generation belonging to this fourth level towards Tel Aviv and surroundings.

This young generation constant emigration is very much related to this thread since it is due to two factors: tourists for a week find Old City of Jerusalem of infinite interest. And they are right.

But younger non religious folks find the daily co-existance with religious Jews as extremely unpleasant and coercitive (their view). And the other reason is the lack of employment opportunities for post university degrees, due to chronic underdevelopment, due in part to the same chronic massive young emigration.

I was not aware of all these some 15 years ago, when I, poor innocent, dared to open a small enterprise for manual BW processing services...
:angel:

Whenever I travel to Tel Aviv, and it happens not so frequently, I find I have traveled overseas, or to a different planet where people are the most close to "normal" I can figure out. The other outstanding feature of Tel Aviv jumping to my eyes is the massive presence of Western-like youngers at the streets. It's their city.

Cheers,
Ruben